I agree that you can't elect to Marshall an off board formation and then not use the move to bring them onto the field of play. Never seen that done by yourself Ginger, and would certainly have cause raised eyebrows if it had been.

I'm happy if people want to leave formations that fail to activate in the webway, not that I do, but to burn the activation without any intention of entering play would certainly sour the game for me.

thing is, regrouping as part of a failed action and regrouping as part of a marshall activation are 2 very different things when applied to off-board fms. Getting rid of the BM gained from failing an activation is, in my mind, part of the core rules and changing it would require adding another rule to using gates/ portals. Please don't tell me that this change is being proposed?

Marshalling off-board is a cheesy way to stall an enemy and would, in my mind, be a pretty boring way to play.

On off-table 'stalling', I still fail to see the difference between the this and the various other means for stalling (formations on OW, A/c on CAP or even standing down etc). I strongly suspect that the issue is actually the *excessive* ability to stall that you are refering to, the issue being that Eldar typically only have a maximum of 3-4 gates, which naturally limits this to no 'stalling' at all. OTOH the Necrons can have many more gates which allows them both a greater ability to 'stall' whilst also permitting the remaining formations to concentrate on a small section of the battlefield.

I have already suggested we adopt the quote from the Necrons, limiting the number of off-table formations that can activate to the number of available gates. However, if that is not an adequate limitation, then perhaps the proposed stricture to move on-table could be amended to :-

A formation in reserves may only take actions which involve moving onto the board, unless this involves moving directly into enemy ZoC when it may Marshall remaining off-table. If it is prevented from moving onto the board the formation loses its action. A formation that is unable to move onto the board may take no actions at all.

Ginger: That's a much bigger change from 1.6, and blocked is a specific portal mechanic so should be dealt with in the portal rules.

There is actually little difference in the case of eldar using a gate between a marshall order and a hold order (from a failed activation or not, as you could choose to make a hold order if you really wanted) both are orders that have a move component, the rules for gates are actually quite clear if you choose to activate an eldar formation to come through a gate it must use an order that allows it to move and then measure its first move from the gate - the fact you have been forced to take a hold order after failing to activate makes no difference as its still an order with a move component.

Thats always been my interpretation, as much as I might personally have liked to have kept the formation in the gate and try again next turn (and probably not had the formation shot to pieces as it limps out of the gate with a big banner saying shoot me) it just doesnt fit the rules as written to me.

Well, Aircraft have a rule for this already, so that's not a problem; "stalling" with overwatch, there's still the chance of failing the roll and not getting overwatch *AND* your formation is on the board with all the risk that entails, so that had costs to the "benefit" of stalling.

For example, an Eldar army with two forms of 'Gate could have four minimum-sized Ranger Troupes in Webway reserve for 400 points, along with two "good" formations if desired, and still have a lot of other activations to use. If off-board formations can activate, the Eldar player can force their opponent to have to commit up to 4 activations before the Eldar have to do anything by just declaring "Marshal" (or even "Hold") actions, "I shoot instead of move out of the gate."... and the 'Gates are still available for use! There's very little cost and very little risk for the Eldar player and I can see it being *extremely* frustrating for an opponent; that's what we're trying to prevent.

That's the thing, nothing in the Portal rule forces you to select the "move" option when using Marshall or Hold; the rule says you have to select an order that has a move component, but not that you have to *use* that component... that's a big part of the discussion.

I have *never* played with a "forced" move on to the board when taking a Hold action, I've always played that the off-board formation had the option to just stay off board.

Seem I must repeat this several times - So this would mean that Eldar with two gates only get two off-table activations per turn, which really limits their ability to stall.

If this is considered insufficient, then:-



Will force on-table moves unless the 'gate is already threatened, when it is more reasonable to permit the formation to remain off-table.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the idea of a general rule is a waste of time. The mechanics are all too different and, without a serious overhaul, irreconcilable.