It's tough to accept because it doesn't feel like any of those other things, it feels like necron-style coming back to life.

But look, I've accepted spawning. I don't particularly like it but I have much larger concerns with the list.

So what? That sounds like an interesting tactic and a good reason to take a dominatrix. Obviously units in the spawning pool would be significantly cheaper, say half price, but there's a trade off against not starting on the board, and potentially never arriving if the enemy targets your dominatrix etc early.

My idea was dropping only Brood Creatures. On board Synapses would be able to pick them up.

Dropping a whole Synapse Swarm with Brood AND Synapse Creatures should cost significantly more.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

How do you see the spore pod approach working BlackLegion?

This is what I'm seeing applicable to a spore pool or spore pool.
1) Loss of general spawning leads to a general 25% reduction in points for Common/Uncommon broods
2) The spawning/spore pool creatures have to be cheaper again due to risk (spores) or unreliability (spawning), somewhere around 50% cheaper than the synapse swarm brood.
3) That leaves spawning/spore Gaunts at ~25pts for 4 stands, Raveners at ~50pts for 4 stands and Assault Spawn at ~75pts for 3.
4) Assuming at 3000pts you spend 1200pts on Common/Uncommon now, that would drop to 900pts leaving you 300pts to spend on the pool.
5) You could spore drop clusters individually leaving you with up to 12 (Assuming 300pts) Free Planetfall turn number and coordinates to plan before the first turn. You could go a bit mad and get a lot more but how long would it take.
6) Assuming you only spend 300pts on a spawning/spore pool at 3000pts, combined with the reduction in brood costs overall you're going in with an 800pt advantage (3800pts under 9.2.1). It may not be reliable but I'm sure strategies could be developed to exploit it to get a bigger advantage. (First turn double spawn and/or Dominatrix for instance)

In response to mageboltrat.
The current system has dead brood creatures go into a pool that can be respawned (you can leave some in there at the start too but there isn't any points discount or incentive other than tactical). I was referring to the fact that you can't just spawn a carnifex unless you've a) bought one and b) it's died or started in the spawning pool. I don't think it would be fair to be able to just spawn any model you have without restriction and that restriction leads to the respawning impression.

Same rules as with Space Marine DropPods.

You buy a Tyranid Spaceship and the Brood Creatures it should transport.

In a pre-selected turn you activate the Spaceship and Planetfall the DropSpores on pre-selected coordinates in the same way as Space Marine DropPods. My intention is that only Brood Creatures can be dropped so that Synapses on the ground have to pick them up.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

The Spore Pod Assault has merit, but not in the main Tyranid list IMO.

The initial Tyranid assault on a planet would be made by the sky filling with these Spore Pods raining down to swamp the enemy on the ground. A Tyranid army list based around this event that concentrates on Spore Pod Assaults, includes Hiveships, has very few big War Engines, but more Lictors, Genestealers- would represent this 'Stage' of the Tyranid assault well.

The 'main' list IMO simulates the 'Stage' just after the Spore Pod Assault, where the Tyranids mutate the wildlife, where they now have nests on the ground and are reproducing troops on the ground. Roving/Stampeding swarms roam the planet seeking out remaining enemy strongpoints whilst the Bio-Titans grow larger and the Ripper Swarms begin to consume captured ground.


My point is the Tyranids have set 'Stages' to their invasion and consumption of a world- following the theme of locust/animals rather than a thinking military machine (which I admit we disagree on).
Unlike Space Marines, Tyranids do not tactical insert Spore Pods throughout their campaign to support troops on the ground. They fire as many Spores as quickly as possible at the start of an invasion to overwhelm the enemy and establish a foothold (shown in a Spore Pod Assault army list).

For that reason I don't want to see Spore Pods in the 'main' Stage list, and I still think Spawning accurately represents the sea of Tyranids roaming across the battlefield.

That said, in my list Splinter Fleet Churoninx, I've watered down the Spawning rules to only include Termagants/Hormagaunts, as I see these as by far the most common genus to spread in the millions on a battlefield. The bigger things like Carnifex or Heirodules could potentially skulk off and reappear during a game, but that is so much rarer by virtue of their fewer numbers, their bigger profile and their higher priority as targets.

In my list you can add Termies/Hormies from your dead or 'reserve' pile instead of Blast Markers (i.e. a Regroup, you can remove BM or add Termie/Hormies for each dice pt).
And also, when a formation Rallies you can add Termies/Hormies equal to 1/2 the Synapse models (or Damage Points) left in the formation.

It can be annoying if that Carnifex or Heirodule keeps popping up when you've killed it, but Termies/Hormies are so weak individually it's hard to complain. And it creates the feeling of an endless tide of the smaller soldiers rather than the resurrection of the same one big beast over and over.

I actually quite like some of your spawning ideas Jeridian although I would retain the capability of spawning AV's and LV's even if it's in a more limited fashion.

I wouldn't mind seeing some drop capability in a main list as although it's not a drop stage some spores are still dropped regularly over the full campaign.

ok i'll copy here what i think of spawning rules.
i've playing some games since the first version of tyr , but i have little time to post report (i think i've only posted 1 or two) the thing i always find broken is the spawning rules(and i play tyr) the earlier version are simply umplayable , is too simple to win , now is a little more balanced , but i think spawning rules is yet too powerfull. I think is better to drop that and maybe lesser the cost of all the lesser brood creature(maybe also biovore and carnifex). I think i had 12 games in near 5 years (lol i just see now is near 5 years wow) with nids and i won all of them versus different player.

With the spawning rules i can't have fun (and neither my opponent) and so i drop any playtest with tyranids , tha last game was with 9.2.1 that is a little more balanced. i don't think all of my opponent are bad player , i also help them telling what is the best thing to do in some situation , or what i've done if playing versus tyr.

Lilith, could you give a bit more detail on why you think spawning is too powerful. What has spawning done in games you've seen/played that had a major impact?

I may be on the wrong track but the general idea I get from this thread is people don't like it when they've heavily damaged a formation (Following conventional tactics) but left it with intact synapse (not following anti-tyranid tactics) which then spawns and comes back. It is easier said than done but this is going to happen if spawning exists and I can't see any way to lessen it.

And it seems like a nice depiction of a bug-eyed monster type of army...

Sometimes is difficult to target the synapse , because not all the list have fast unit , or enough firepower to totally destroy 1 formation. with the tyranid i can play a little less activation than other list and play the game like this: 2 or 3 of the biggest brood have to march or move on the objectuves , possibly blocking movemente with zoc . The turn 2 3 and 4 the y only have to respawn and marshall , is very very difficult to destroy that formations , the rest of the list instead have to take the blitz and doing much damage as possible. Using this tactics is very easy to win 2-0 in the 3 turn or better if lucky.Your enemies have to try to contest the objects to you and so to be near you and in range for a possible engage . with this tactics i won all the game but neither i or my friend is very happy of the game.

Hard not to be a jerk about this, but your opponents can't be that good!

You have no aircraft and very little ranged weaponry, especially beyond 30cm.
Your strategy is to March turn 1, then sit there for the rest of the game.

Space Marines (and Eldar) should dance around you turns 1-2, picking off small/fast/dangerous units like Lictor strikes, Harridans, etc. Turn 3 it is very easy to engage and break a formation that has just sat there all game.

You have Strategy Rating 1, so they can even be bold enough to prepare for an engagement the previous turn. Place a Blast Marker, clipping engage a corner, gun down some bugs- win combat.
Your strategy suddenly unravels as the formation is Broken and flees at the one crucial moment you needed to hold that objective.


Imperial Guard can use superior firepower and range to do the same- picking on small/fast/dangerous stuff early letting you sit on the objectives. Then rolling forward to at least contest the objective you've sat on.


In short, I think Spawning is the least of your opponents problems.

only 2 or 3 formation maqke march and then marshall , the rest of the army try to destroy the enemy , so he have to choose what to do kill first. And the most of the time my opponent shoot at the nearest formation leaving the objectives undefended or reachable only with march movement.

One of the essential things for fighting Tyranids is AT firepower, you just can't chew through the infantry fast enough with AP. Having said that even fairly heaviliy shielded synapse groups (Using AV's and LV's to cover the Synapse stands) is in major trouble if you get a sustaining (or even advancing) AT formation like Predator Anihilators, Land Raiders, Falcons or Aircraft. Despite the common view of Tyranids being great in assault, they are not particularly great in engages against them due to generally weak FF. That remains a good way to hurt them, cutting down the non-fearless brood creatures leaving the synapse exposed, forcing them to move back and cutting spawning potential. As Jeridian says a placed BM and an engagement on your terms will break most Tyranid formations making your life a lot easier.