I agree with Hena - if there is one elite unit that should be fearless it terminators. I don't see that fearless has a huge effect on terminators - once you have teleported if the DG (or whoever) lose the roll-off to go first then its run away and then shoot the terminators to try and break them. They still break with very few kills and are a large points spend in the list.

Fearless Terminators deny blitz and other objectives.

They are not that easy to kill via shooting

I am just going to leave it at that. You can all experience it through your own playtests.

Broken Fearless Terminators only deny They Should Not Pass.

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They also prevent the following:

Defend the Flag
Blitz
BTS - in most cases
TSNP - If they rally

Seeing that Fearless units do not take extra casualties when broken, nor do they have to move outside of 15cm on a fall back, no enemy can get past them. They are better than a Titan due to the fact that they Teleport and can pick their location of arrival - something a titan cannot do. They are a pure denial (don't come past this line) type of formation and really take away a lot from the opponent in terms of fairness and fun.

It worries me that people do not realise this. Is it just an absense of games with Fearless terminators that people do not experience these tactics?

No - I've played over 30 games with fearless terminators of various flavours and it has never been an issue.

They are a small formation so can be broken easily.

If you know terminators are coming then standard practices still apply - OW, scout screens which limit effectiveness and then deploy away from you own blitz so if the termies want to teleport on the blitz - the only way they are going to able to block it then they have 400+ points sitting there whilst you out activate them.

Indeed at 650 pts I think I would probably give them a miss fearless or not. There are much better choices for your points.

BTS is a possibility yes but broken formations can't control or contest objectives. Placing 6 Blastmarkers to break the Plague Terminators (perhabs formations name change to Deathshroud?)isn't that hard.

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..and how do you get your troops past those broken units? I think you are missing the point I am making.

It appears I am not changing any views here, so just carry on. I do not wish to derail the thread further. I have said my peace on the Fearless Terminators.

I don't know why the aim is to keep it walker based, There is nothing in the background to suggest this to be the case and most of the Daemon Engines are wheeled based. Death Guard are known for infantry based close fire action, not walkers (though walkers fit into this idea nicely).

My main issues with this is that your base retinues can load still load up on rhinos and wiz around the board which seems wrong, yet not Dreadclaws, this feels the wrong way round, even in 40k they were meant to be limited in rhinos (never panned out that way, but that was because the rule was stupidly worded). But the image of Deathguard Dropping into a trench line and then implacably walking down trenchlines is far more ingrained.

I do agree that predator formations should be limited. I have no problem with them stocking up on Walker and Daemon Engines as they are slower and tough.

However I don't think that the list should force people to run Defilers and Desecrators, which are hard to get and create models.

Why not say that only half your infantry retinues are allowed Rhinos, if you want to have the slow moving theme?

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I can see why that would be the case with so few support formations allowed and Plaguemarines having no shooting. But I've been running a big formation of BL with Havocs and 2 Oblits, Garrisoned it is damn hard to shift and does well every game. If the issue is the slow formation not performing well enough there is a way to sort that out which is to mess with it's points. lower the basic formation (or increase it's size) and make Dreadclaws more expensive. Ground pounding infantry is DGs thing, you can't just ignore the background and feel of the army.



It is a bit of a issue, I would love to see something like DG infantry armed with AA-Misile Launchers in the list, that would give a ground based AA choice.

Which is more of less what you would have if you made the list

Core Retinues

Support choose 1/CR

DG w Rhinos
Terminators
Predator Formation
Blight Drone Swarm
Zombies

Support choose 2/CR

Contagion Engines
Defiler Assault Pack
Plague Towers
Assault Retinue

It would allow you to run with lots of slow support if you wanted, but limits the faster stuff.. you have a lot vying for the slot
I would also increase the size of the main infantry formation to around 350, probably with somthing like a 6/3 Legionaire/DG split. So you have a really nice hard to kill bulky unit at the core of the army. If it's hampered too much by lack of speed rhinos, increase the size of it.