What would people say if you could buy a pair of Orcas? just like THT's, just an idea, because from a fluff side of things would Tau land a single small formation in one place, wouldn't they be more likely to come down on mass, so if a formation is to large to fit in one Orca but don't need a Manta, they'd just use two??

and it could be easier to balance than THT's because of ATSKNF makes them much better than normal air transports.

sorry to throw a random idea into the topic.

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"Dyslexia is a Privilege, not a right"

First off, I don't consider it a random idea.

I am a little leery of making a change such as doubling up on Orcas as I think it would be tougher to test the balance on that in what time we have left.

As far as your initial question goes, in IA3 - Taros, that exact scenario (single Orca) was described in an special ops operation where one Orca's worth of FW's and Crisis landed at an Imperial Navy airfield with the specific purpose of destroying the aircraft. They did, but all Tau forces were lost. However, the impact of this raid was significant in that additional forces from the front had to be pulled back to provide security to the Imperial infrastructure.

It was this scenario that got me to thinking about the mixed force (Crisis+FW) and what has led the reason for this discussion. I'm not trying to infer that we should be able to do the same things in Epic that are possible in 40K, but given the potential effectiveness of such a tactic, would it make sense to allow a Crisis upgrade to the FWs?

One of the things other things I am mulling over is reducing the Crisis upgrade to 1-2 units vs. the current 1-4. I haven't seen anyone other than myself take big Crisis formations and of late I've only been taking 5-6 sized formations.

Thoughts?

Dobbsy: I am attempting to leave no stone unturned. That does not mean wholesale changes, but tweaks and refinements. As it stands now, I think the safer course is to leave the Orca as is, possibly with a slight bump down.

Since I was doing something new for the first time, it brought up questions. I have the same concerns about the Manta (i.e. is it right?).

I'm sorry if my way of approaching things is confusing to you. At this point, I am taking what is commonly referred to as "the smell test" to things. That means, approaching the problem/product/issue from various angles to see if it passes a common sense "test".

Jstr19: Ah, I understand your point more clearly. The Orca was landed in order to deploy the other formations, not airdropped.

So, to summarize:

1. Is everyone Ok with the reduction of the Crisis upgrade to 1-2, which I believe is what E&C originally proposed?

2. If #1 is Ok, are people Ok with a Crisis upgrade to the FWs?

3. Does the Orca in it's current form, warrant a cost drop of...25 pts, to 125?

Locally, we'll be testing this next week.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

That's fine by me, I guess.
More important is that the Crisis units be slightly upgraded (+1 to their MW shots) and Hammerhead formations recieve a 25pt points drop (and +1 to the MW shot on the Fusion Hammerhead), IMO.


I wouldn't like that.
One of the design concepts of the E-series was never to mix unit types which had diferent initiative ratings in their native formations, so as not to confuse the opponents and so as to enhance the "synergy"/formations working together to achieve goals theme.

If you really want the ability to drop mixed Crisis and Fire Warrior groups I would rather see the option to add a second Orca for extra transport capacity.


I regard this as the same kind of situation as the Thunderhawk Gunship in Warhammer 40,000, where a valid loadout might be:

- 3 bikes
- 5 Assault Marines
- 10 Tactical Marines

etc.

I'd say yes.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Ah, yes. Thank you for reminding me about that. That would not be my intention.

I think rather than risk a two ship formation of Orcas, I am more inclined to leave it as is an test the cost factor.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

No problems, it's just that small tweaks and refinements that you propose can effect the list. So going by your previous stance, I assumed everything that was changed had a minimal timeframe to prove they were ok to include in post-lock down list otherwise they wouldn't be included.



1. Yes. It's how they used to be before you bumped them up to 1-4 so no testing required IMO
2. It would be really nice to give people the option to have an SC that could go with a different formation than just the Crisis - as it used to be - but E&C is against it so there's no point reverting as we'd never hear the end of it   Keep them as is.
3. Sure, let's try it. A 25 points won't make a huge difference in a list build but we won't know unless we try.  

Just a of question Honda. Will the draft of 6.3 be available to perhaps test and so we can see what changes you've implemented before you lock it for a year? In the post E-series list, you made large changes without any consultation (Skysweep, 2+ Crisis initiative, etc etc). Cheers.

Let me restate what has been said before. The final freeze version will be posted for review. The intent is to ensure that last minute edits, etc. do not sneak into the copy that is going to be frozen.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

125pts is too cheap for an Orca in my opinion.

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At 125 points an Orca, it'll be relatively easy to create an "eternal air assault" type list as you cycle through Orcas picking up and dropping off.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I seem to remember that a previous version of the list, limited Orca's to 1 per Cadre. Could that be a useful tool here?

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@Onyx: Short answer, "yes"

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment