Can we just do consecutive games using the same lists but using option 1 the first game and option 2 the second to compare results rather than going back and forth about semantics? It seems that most of this discussion has turned theoretical rather than actual and if time is as limited, as Moscovian has implied, before Raiders 2.0, can we get some actual data on how things work with the three options on the table? Right now this seems to just be devolving into bickering about intent and possibilities.

As I've said before, I'm for smaller incremental changes and that means using the straight up void shields rule in option 1 before tweaking it should that prove necessary. Under the circumstances, though, option two makes the most sense seeing it reduces the benefit gained by keeping formations off board and there is a possibility that the VS rule could have the crons a bit OP. It also means that should we find option two to be too limiting, we could just say "use the VS rule" which is a pretty easy fall back in my book.

Frankly I don't care which one gets used so long as it makes sense, is easy to explain, and works to balance the list and from what I can tell, not much of the discussion on the last couple of pages has done anything to promote that.

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-Vaaish

Mosc: You're going to have to show me those emails, because I simply do not believe that Corey's original intent wasn't to allow marshalling from offboard. I just don't believe it at all. The rules were utterly, specifically clear that it was allowed; they went out of their way to make it allowed.

Formations that are not on the board cannot return stands to play, but may take a Marshal action to enter the board and restore units when they regroup (this includes formations with no blast markers).

That is watertight and crystal clear, and couldn't possibly mean the opposite. It goes out of its way to make it allowable, and I just don't see anything wrong with it as a tactic either.

Why shouldn't forces be allowed to marshall onto the board? It's a primary necron tactic. I can understand not wanting them to marshall with no BMs, sure, lose that bit. But most offboard formations will now have BMs, so why not allow them to marshall through a portal. I simply cannot understand why it wouldn't be allowed.

I'm completely with Chroma and Hena here. It's a perfectly valid tactic, not broken in any way, and should be allowed. By all means ban regrouping offboard, but to disallow allow it once the formation has moved onto the board is just weird.

Why should where the formation issues the order matter? Where the regrouping happens is what matters; it should only happen onboard.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Welcome to my hell.

However, in this case it was my bad memory.  One of those can't see the forest through the trees moments.  Sorry, folks.  I went and pulled the email and   here it is...
   

My memory failed - it was a rally function he was talking about, not the marshal.  Credit where credit is due.  Please don't throw lettuce at me.

So let's see if I can pull the train back on the rails.
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Marshaling to restore units allowed to come on the board .  Marshaling to restore units disallowed when leaving the board.  We can FAQ it and be done with the whole dang thing.

This whole stupid time I've been NOT marshaling coming out of the portals and oddly enough I still have a scary win ratio with the Necrons.

The good thing is -despite my best efforts to sabotage my own project- we have a solid direction to put to ink.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Phew. No worries on the forgetting, at least we're all on the same page now.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

So is my post a few ago now correct?

Yes it is.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Mosc. does this mean you'll be updating the Raiders 2.0 you posted?

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

sorry for taking to long to weigh in on the discussion.

The weather has been monstrous, and has had a negative impact on my internet ability.

I haven't read entirely through all this yet, but I'm working on it

Let me say that I don't like any of the 3 options Mosc put out.  Not because there's any fault in them, it's just that this is the sort of radical changes (nessesary to be sure) that I was afraid of.

It's appearant to me that people had some mistaken impressions about what had always been intended.  Let me say straight out that I never wanted being off-board to be a GOOD thing.  It should be a Bad thing, or at least non-beneficial.

I never wanted anyone offboard to be able to restore units by any means.  I wanted you to have to bring your weakened formations back into play with a Marshal Action to do that, which would give you the choice of restoring your formations at the cost of a turn, or just going ahead with a weakened group.

Anyway, back to the point:

Option #1:  This is the simplest and the most logical.  After all, Mosc has frequently made the point (correctly) that there's no logical reason why being off the board should magically remove the Necron's ability to regenerate.  Doing so was always an "Artifact of the Game" situation to try to bring more balance.  This, while the easiest, and most logically consistant, is the one that provides too much power in my opinion.

From what I see, Options #2 and #3 are just two sides of the same coin.  The exception is that Option #3 gives an advantage to being off board.

Frankly, at this point, I'm not sure I see a good choice, but the ERC may have a descision that changes all our options  

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

The problem with option 1 is that's it's quite a big boost to an army that probably doesn't need a boost.

Option 2 is the closest to what we've always had, so is probably the best choice.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread