Do you know what it refers to GlynG?

Forlorn Hope Definition

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Yes I did, though not originally. I don't think it's a very suitable or fitting name for a chaos unit.

You never watched enough Sharpe (call yourself a wargamer ). But it makes sense, they are normally put ahead of the main force and get shot to pieces.

_________________

My Photobucket

I suppose the modern name would be "Speed Bump", but the Chaos Veterans probably find that offensive... *laugh*

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Nah never seen it, with the exception of watching Doctor Who and the new Survivors I hardly ever watch TV (literally hardly ever, most months pass by without me watching any).

I'd be completely fine with an Imperial Guard formation being called Forlorn Hope (particularly the morbid Death Korps of Krieg), I just don't think a depressed self-pitying sounding name like that is suitable for Chaos Space Marines, whose etymology is much different with aggressive, destructive names likes 'Havocs', 'Defilers', 'Raptors', 'Obliterators', 'Berzerkers' etc being the norm.

I always thought it would be more appropriate in an Iron Warrior army as they definitely do use a Forlorn Hope made normally of human conscripts. They blast down the walls to a fortress with their demon engines and then send in the Forlorn Hope to make an nice smooth ramp into the breach.

_________________

My Photobucket

But those are *unit* names... the formation names are boring things like "Retinue"... *laugh*

And it's not self-pitying, it's, for the Chaos Marines, probably more of a macabre joke... it's the enemy they first meet that will have no hope, etc.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

That supports my point; as a name for referring to worthless human conscript fighters it would be a great fit. Chaos Marines are the elite of the galaxy though, 'each one worth a hundred guardsmen' (if you believe marine propaganda) and they are very proud; they would never refer to themselves as Forlorn Hopes, nor would any of their opponents.


Historically the Forlorn Hope did refer to the unit itself though rather than it's enemies and all (or virtually all) other unit/formation names in epic refer to the formation itself, not to the emotions the enemy may feel if they encounter them (which often wouldn't make sense that way anyway - forlorn tyranids? Hopeless Necrons?). If the studio released scouting chaos space marines or referred to some they definitely not call them 'Forlorn Hope'. I'm not sure if it was a fan invention or Jervis' idea but the name is a very poor choice. Better call them Chosen or Possessed or any of a variety of other possibilities.

Sorry for sidetracking off your topic anyway, I'll shut up now.

It was Jervis's idea as a "shout out" to historical gaming... and GW would *never* use the name in 40k as kids wouldn't get it.

It's a "What the heck does that mean?"... Google... "Oh, neat reference."-type of thing... Jervis likes his "meta" jokes.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I understand the thinking behind it and I'd be completely happy it in a Guard or LaTD list where it fits and works as a cool historical reference, but it just stands out as wrong in this context, making the unit sound wrong and making the reference seem clumsily placed / thought out.

It's cool, nice little chat, don't mind it at all... GO WATCH SHARPE ...

Anyhow, my Forlorn Hope have been constructed now. Though 'Giant Rats being chased by Chaos Space Marines waving weapons' would be a better name for them.

_________________

My Photobucket

I like the sound of this.

_________________
"Good ale, the true and proper drink of Englishmen. He is not deserving of the name of Englishman who speaketh against ale, that is good ale."
- George Borrow

Me and my girly are a bit ill at the moment, and as she is the photographer I haven't managed to get any photos done yet. Going to see if I can manage to today. Things aren't going as fast as I would like either. However I have got the 4 Havocs done. I have been putting 4 heavies and a Aspiring Champion on each stand, converting half the heavy weapons out of Noise Marines (which is quite easy. However it has made me notice that there is a severe lack of Aspiring Champion models, so I have had to make them myself, most are made of 3 or 4 parts + green stuff. This has made it take so much longer to put a stand together. Also need to get all my old chaos marines into some brake fluid, they have so much paint on them.

Left to make

2 Terminators
2 Obliterators
14 Marine Stands
2 Lord Stands
4 Plague Marines
4 Marine Rhinos
2 Death Guard Rhinos
1 Swiftdeath Interceptors

Constructed

4 Havocs
4 Forlorn Hope Marines
2 Terminators
2 Death Wheels
6 Lesser Daemons

Painted

2 Swiftdeath Interceptors
2 Ferals

_________________

My Photobucket

BTW does anyone have any of the Nurgle Warmachines they are never going to use. I could probably find something to swap for them, or even paint something in return for them. I don't need them immediately, but I'm probably going to try and get together a Nurgle LatD army made for the Tournie in May.

_________________

My Photobucket

Death Wheels, just got some of the base colours on



Forlorn Hope (or Giant Rats being chased by Chaos Space Marines waving weapons)



Termies



Havocs

_________________

My Photobucket