That's the plan, Matt is going to try to use RG Assault and Storm Eagles to some degree.

I thought they seemed pricey too, but didn't want to comment until I had atleast one test.

So we'll go with no Drop Pod, Storm Eagle combo.

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I think you did.

Drop Pods - Formation may deploy in drop pods.  Formation may not contain any units incapable of being transported in drop pods.

I don't think you can put a Storm Eagle in a Drop Pod,  so it's not allowed RaW.

Morgan Vening

Somehow I missed this one, so apologies on the delay.



1. In general, there are two kinds of SM chapters, codex and non-codex. Codex chapters follow, for the most part, the guidelines, treatises, and tactics as outlined by Roboute Guilliman in his Codex Astartes, which was created at the end of the Horus Heresy. This codex is among other things, the operating manual for Loyalist chapters.

2. For the most part, codex chapters use same tools the same way. So in the case of the example we are discussing, terminators deploy using teleportation. That’s how all codex chapters operate. Don’t try to work logic into this, it’s a GW thing, I'm just stating what is canon.

3. There are non-codex chapters out there. Those that are the most commonly known are the Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and the Black Templars. In various ways, they do what ever they want or step outside the accepted norms (i.e. Codex Astartes). Space Wolves don't use teleportation because they don't trust the technology...probably for good reasons. However, they are the only chapter that does. That's not the only way they diverge, but it is one of the chapter defining characteristics.

4. The consequences of not adhering to the Codex Astartes are dependent on the degree of the divergence. However, those that GW formally acknowledge have what could be considered significant divergences and as a result are under close scrutiny by the Inquisition. To say that the Inquisition does not like divergence is an understatement.

5. Since the Space Wolves are the only loyalist chapter that does not teleport their termies, giving this ability to the Raven Guard would run against SM canon.

Not trying to argue against your logic and reasoning for your approach, because there is nothing wrong with it. I'm just trying to point out that you are, from a fluff perspective, significantly changing the backstory.

My two yen.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I played a game against a Raven Guard list recently, and wrote it up here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ht=cadians

Please forgive the Cadian mumbo jumbo in the beginning, and yes, we made an illegal list with the RG's 2 Strike Cruisers (heck, after the game he wanted 3!), but my friend liked the concept of it.

When playing Epic, he kind of flips through lists and sees things he wants to try out, tries them, and then moves on usually lol. In this case, he thought he found his "list" but is currently exploring other options before coming back.

Just wanted to offer some feedback on it.

Matt the Muppet and I ran a two games over Vassal, Necrons vs RG. The first one was a 3-0 win for the RG (I e-mailed you about that one). The second was a 5-0 win for the Necrons. He was definitely going to win 3-0, but there was a chance I could make it 3-1 by breaking his BTS with a THawk. Obviously that didn't work .

So their win-loss at the moment is:

3-3 against Guard
1-0 against AMTL
1-0 against Chaos
1-1 against Necrons

Not sure when I'll be able to get another playtest in, CaptPiett's off of Epic for the time being. At this point I think bumping the Strike Cruiser up by 100 points wouldn't be out of the question. That would go a long way towards alleviating planetfalling Speeders and the re-roll for scatter. I don't think the Speeders themselves should go up as they perform just like the vanilla list when they start onboard.

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Im not an expert, having only played against them one time, but I dont think this is needed. One Strike Cruiser cant carry that much, in the scheme of the things. 2 was nasty, but wrong, obviously, but 1 wasnt that bad. Knowing that its coming just means you have to space accordingly.

Just my humble opinion.

Take a look at the BatReps I posted Kealios, I'm not just blowing smoke. There's 8 of them in there.

One Strike Cruiser has the ability to carry four Land Speeder formations which can planetfall on turn 1. That gives them the ability to sustain or advance, and do a lot of damage right from the start. Add to that another 3-4 infantry formations coming down with Deathwinds and the ability to re-roll scatter on everything makes for a pretty devastating punch.

And how often do you see those vehicle transport spots on a Strike Cruiser used in a Codex Astartes list? Not a lot of people take a Landing Craft, and that's the only way to use up those vehicle spots. Giving Speeders planetfall makes filling those vehicle spots a lot easier. That make the Strike Cruiser a lot more valuable.

I read those reports (2 at least, vs IG and Chaos) and yes, the drop is powerful. Is it enough to increase the cost of the Strike Cruiser? People smarter than me will need to make that call, but I still am of the opinion that no, that isnt needed.

First: The BatReps you posted has list v0.4 shown. The list I have is v1.1. Is there a difference?

It seems that Assault Marines losing their jump packs is a balancing factor, since it turns them into almost a one-shot wonder.

Also, I noticed that Raven Guard's Drop Pod allows the whole formation (infantry, transports and Dreads) to drop, where the Salamander's Drop Pod removes transport. If this is the case, maybe the RG's Drop Pods need to cost an extra 25 points per formation or something? This might balance the list more than just increasing the cost of the Strike Cruiser.

You have a point that Land Speeders dont need Drop Pods in this list, but what if you required them to take one? For the cost, they'd get the Area of Effect weapon on the Pod.

Aha. I guess I was reading the Drop Pod entry of "may carry one formation that includes only Tactical, Devastator and Dreadnought units" as including their transports. Rules as Written suggests otherwise, which I see now.

May I suggest a clarification in the Raven Guard list to emulate the Salamander's gentle reminder to ditch said transport in a unit that upgrades to a Drop Pod?

6.3.1 is pretty specific with regards to that:



You're right in that there definitely should be an addendum for RG though, seeing as how planetfalling Speeders and Storm Eagles can be attached to units that can deploy via drop pod. I believe Neal's intention was not to allow Storm Eagles to follow a Drop Podding unit in, not sure about the Speeders.

Speaking of Neal, I haven't seen him around since the forum has been back up. Is he around?

Also, where did you get RG v1.1 from?

My bad. I read section 6 for one thing and one thing only: The Tourney scenario. I get all other info from NetEA lists and chapter 2



viewtopic.php?f=69&t=16685

Ahh, not sure why Chroma re-labeled it to 1.1, maybe it was a copy and paste error? 0.4 and 1.1 look identical.

Anyway, what brought me back to this thread was this:



Looks like we'll be seeing another RG book from Black Library next year.

Neal, any thoughts on upping the cost of the Strike Cruiser.

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A version that *starts* with a 0, e.g., v0.4 is considered a "pre-release" or "beta", once something is actually released, as in the NetEA books, the versioning starts with a "1", and continues from there.

Hey: I missed the early April posts. As noted, I didn't realize for a while that Epicomms was back up.
==

Sounds like the list does need a bump in cost. I'm inclined to increase the cruiser slightly and the Speeders slightly rather than rely on just a Cruiser increase. That would make a Speeder-heavy force that takes advantage of the Cruiser's vehicle capacity more expensive while not punishing an infantry-heavy drop pod force that doesn't use a lot of Speeders.

Opinions?