Ok, it's a simple matter. I have loads of Horrors and want to take some for my 2500 point Chaos Daemon Horde for a battle this Sunday using NetEpic GOLD. Then I see for 125 points I can give a detachment of Pink Horrors the Mark of Tzeentch.

Pink Horrors naturally split in to two Blue Horrors when they are destroyed/killed. These Blue Horrors are just removed when they themselves are killed. VP is only awarded after all Horrors, Pink or Blue of that detachment are considered killed. And a Horror is only considered truly killed when it is removed as a Blue Horror. Correct? Yup! You all know it is.  

Therefore!..

A Pink Horror with the Mark of Tzeentch (Flames of Rebirth) still splits into two Blue Horrors when it is killed as normal, that is it's ability and the Mark does not effect units basic abilities. Then when the Blue Horror is killed and the unit is truly considered dead and would normally be removed it is replaced as per the Mark of Tzeentch with another Pink Horror which then when killed is itself split into two Blue Horrors that are removed when they too are killed. AND only VP is awarded AFTER ALL Horrors are removed. YAY!!!  

That's 5x Pink Horrors = 150 point + 125 points = 275 points and you get 5x Pink Horrors that become 10x Blue Horrors that become 10x Pink Horrors that then become 20x Blue Horrors as they die. And VP is only awarded after they are ALL killed.
 

Houston we have a problem!.. but I'm not averse to exploiting a rule at least once. I'm sure this will upset the Powers of Balance but hey, they aren't my rules. Heehaw. (Yes, I'm being a Jackass but I know I'm right despite the unembodied insubstantial and therefore ignorable ever present spirit of the rule, bah-humbug. I'm just gloating about it).

No, I haven't been drinking... um, well.  

Yes, I also know Warp/psychic based attacks kill the Horror outright.

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Hi Warhead


Just let the Mark of Tzeentch work before the horror split
Pink horror hit-->then rebirth-->hit again-->then splits into 2 blue
What about that?

_________________
I am not available for that cognition on my part

Hi Ulric,

Um, sorry but you missed my point. I want to use it as is. Yes, your suggestion would be a quick fix but that is not how the rule is written so not how it's should be used. The rules are clear and the way I set it out is how it works. Correct?

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I think this one hinges on the definition of the term 'unit'.
Is it the case that 2 new blue horror units are created when the pink horror dies?
Does the mark ability apply to a unit?

If the answer to both of these is yes, then I think you should go with Ulric's interpretation.

_________________
Uti possidetis, ita possideatis.
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
An online epic force creator: Armyforge

Oh noes, he's found a combination that is broken  

Actually, given the mark says "immediately" and the Horrors don't, I would imagine the implication is the mark's effect happens first, so Ulric's interpretation is probably the more correct one.  

Sorry to burst your "45 Horrors for 275 points" bubble  

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

Good to see you back BTW.

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

*Sulks in corner, sticks out tongue and makes rude gesture*  

Thanks... bubble busters.

I still say I'm right. It hinges on when the Horror is considered dead, which is when the Blue Horror is removed. It states it quite clearly the Horror isn't truly dead until then. Therefore the Immediately thing only takes effect once the original Blue Horror is removed. Cookie pleaze!

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Sorry, but I say you're wrong Your explanation is based on what you hope, not on what's written:



I agree with Ulric explanation. Any other way of playing the Mark of Tzeentch on pink Horrors would result in an abusing use of the mark and another complain thread.

Also, could someone explain with clear wording what mean in horrors description the sentence "Only the reduction of the total number of Horrors on the table will count for determining the detachment’s Break Point." and what are the consequences on the BP 3 stated in the unit support card ?

_________________
Fair players live longer
Epic40k.fr Techpriest

does that mean
that a unit of horrors hit by a eldar warlock titans psychic lance
will not split?

@ warhead
just hide this thread before your friends
and play the horrors the way you like

_________________
I am not available for that cognition on my part

That very plan has already been implemented Ulric but thanks for watching out for me.    

Yeah, Psychic attacks would stop Horrors from splitting.

@Scream: Ttttthhhhhrrrrruuuuuuppppppppppppp!  


Anyway, I hope/might/may post the bat rep... of course there would be more chance if you all had just agreed with me at the start.  

It's supposed to be a four way battle with Marines, Tyranids, Orks and Chaos (really odd) but we'll see just who turns up on the day. One of the guys (TheDracon) just moved and is now 35 minuets by train from here so I'm hoping there will be many more games to play... um, perhaps I shouldn't be using those Horrors that way I guess... NAH!  

Anyway, have you missed me? (...with every shot so far)?

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

what should I say?
Yes

_________________
I am not available for that cognition on my part

HAha, cheers. As you can see I have calmed down loads since I was last here.    

Off Topic: So, what's been happening with you lot?

Since my eyes have been acting up and I've been finding it even harder to focus close up (cross eyed painter? No thanks, it's bad enough that my tongue sticks out when I paint). So, I have found something else to do that my eyes can cope with, no it isn't the hated 40K. It's called Brikwars and it was one of the guys here that introduced it on the forum and it is funny as all hell and appeals to my sense of humour. Here's a link for my Forum Battle Report? (Yup, forum battle. These guys play against each other by PM and it works).

WARNING! Mature and serious minded adults should not click this link, Ever!
http://www.brikwars.com/forums....start=0
The real fighting starts on turn 1.

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Dat's cool.  And my son has a collection of Lego soooo huge we'd just about be able to do one of those boards!  

_________________
Fire bad, tree pretty - Buffy

cool
I am stupid that I selled my lego 17 years ago

_________________
I am not available for that cognition on my part

It's probably the funniest laugh I've had while playing a table top game. I've played a few games with my son, uh, obviously toned down a lot so not so much blood and no sexual innuendos etc, it's a good system but I still love Epic.

Oh, and I played the Horrors today with Mark of Tzeentch, yeah it's broken.  

_________________
My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]