I can think of no better time to make the change to non slow-firing, AP5+/AT5+ Plasma Cannons, given the draft netEA List Compendium would be the easiest way to make the change.

Would this be TRC's decision? He is the champion of the only official list using them, as well as the co-champion of the list that makes the most use of them.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

"butter to the fishes" literally    = come to the point, get down to business, etc

Baked or fried fish is often served with a piece of butter which only is put on the hot fish shortly bevore the meal begins so that the butter doesn't melt to early. As soon there is "butter to the fishes" the meal begins and everyone gets down to business (thats eating the fish). Without butter it's only half the business.  

@zombocom: 30cm AP5+/AT5+ would be a direct copy of the Assault Cannon.

So the three workable options are:

1. Leave it at 30cm AP4+/AT4+ Slow-Firing
2. Change it to a clone of the Assault Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+
3. Change it to 30cm AP4+/AT6+

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I like 30cm AP4+/AT6+. Trade off 15cm range for +1AP. Doesn't overlap the Assault Cannon, isn't slow firing and fits reasonably in with 40k stats (Around Missile Launcher in AT stats but weaker than Lascannon and better than Heavy Bolter/Assault Cannon in AP).

1) I really think a change is needed; the slow firing issue is causing too many problems in lists.

2) I have no problem with it having the same stats as the Assault Cannon. Two of the most common weapons, the Autocannon and Missile Launcher have identical stats, so I see no problem with two rarer weapons having the same stats.

3) This would require changing the Plasma Gun too, since it makes no sense for the Plasma Cannon to be worse at AT than the Plasma Gun. Since there is no pressing need to change the Plasma Gun stats this idea is unworkable.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

30cm AP+3/AT+6??
30cm AP+3/AT+5??
30cm AP+4/AT+5??
30cm AP+4/AT+6??
45cm AP+3/AT+5??
45cm AP+4/AT+5??
45cm AP+4/AT+6??
45cm AP+3/AT+6??

Which one would be right eh? The above are some ideas I threw up and are NOT Slow Firing. I prefer the bold ones more than the rest. The 45cm really makes them interchangeable with ML in the DA Tac's and Dev's(if the mixing option is still in the list).

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AP3+? Demolisher cannon? Really?

Any more thought on changing the Plasma cannon's?

I like it being 45cm AP+(3or4)/AT+6.

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If it's AT6+ then you have to change the plasma gun as well, and there's no pressing need to do that.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Making plasma cannons either 30cm or Slow Firing for a modest increase of stats makes DA tactically different and more interesting to play.

Simply making the guns better with the same range does nothing of the sort and shouldn't really be considered IMO.

As for LR Demolishers, if MW main gun would make them overpowered I don't see how AP3+ 45cm sponsons wouldn't.

No way i see Plama Cannons shoot farther than 30cm. Tome the rage isn't to debate but the AP and AT values and the status of Slow-Firing. At least Slow-Firing should go.

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So the silence means the NetERC has no interest to make a call here?

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My "old v2 addict" view about the plasma cannon :

2 firing modes :
- 'full burst' : very effective anti-everything, 1 turn to reload
- 'half burst' : mid power, reasonably good at AP, hardly able to take down armoured vehicles, can fire every turn

So the "AP4+/AT4+ Slow-Firing" corresponds to the full burst, and the "AP4+/AT6+" corresponds to the half burst (better than the AP5+/AT5+).

I support any mean to remove the 'Slow-Firing' (a 3 Leman Russ Demolisher platoon means 6 plasma cannons you must take attention to. Arg !!). But the "AP4+/AT6+" annihilates the AT capacity of the plasma cannon. "AP5+/AT5+" represents a kind of average firepower. I don't care that makes the plasma cannon a clone of the assault cannon.

So my preference goes to a "30cm AP5+/AT5+" plasma cannon.

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Stomp, you may have more monkey-training experience than I, so I'll leave that judgement to you...  

I have to agree that I don't see a need for change here. The book keeping is not a huge issue, IMO. It's certainly no more complex than the BM mechanic.

I think it's silly to talk of revising several weapons due to a problem with a developmental list. It's a very 40k-like thing to do.

I agree that 40k stats should inform Epic stats, especially when adding new weapons. I disagree with using 40k stats to define Epic stats, especially when talking of changing an established weapons system to better match the notoriously fickle 40k stats.

These are differant games, with differant mechanincs, which just happen to be set in the same universe. Defining Epic stats with their 40k counterpart makes no more sense than trying to change 40k stats because they don't match the effects of the Epic version.

SG

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It's not the 40k connection that makes me want to change the rules, it's the epic bookeeping.

Having multiple slow-fire sponsons in a formations is a hastle, especially in varient lists which allow more demolishers or have infantry armed with the same weapons.

If a non slow-firing stat can be agreed on it'd be a lot simpler to keep track of.

Frankly, making plasma cannons slow-firing was a poorly thought-out choice in the first place.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I couldn't disagree more.

The 40k solution would be to invent a new special rule that meant that certain plasma cannons carried by a specific unit would be not slow-firing. 40k thrives on creating special rules and exceptions for all units.

The epic solution is to fix the problem at the source, so that such notes and special rules are unneeded.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread