love the recap, mosc

Think you have missed the point here BL (Ok its very late here too)

If the Storm Serpent is in the wrong place because it failed to activate, the Eldar player then has a dilema whether to bring the formation out of the Webway (which would now be out of position too), or to wait until the following turn.

Under Neal's interpretation, the Eldar player either is forced to activate the formation and attempt to bring it onto the table, or he must choose to 'lose' an activation thus giving an advantage to his opponent. Either way it compunds the Eldar player's problems.

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That's the whole point Ginger.  Using portals can be a risky business but with a potentially big pay off.

What if the storm serpent was destroyed?  This has a similar effect.  At least the player with the portal has the choice of whether or not to try and bring a unit out of the portal.  



I was going to add this myself.

And for the recap I'm with Neilhunt and Corey on this one, although getting a little frustrated that it's been 7 pages and we're still going round in circles.

As an Eldar player, this way of playing the rule does not benefit me but it does seem the fairest way.

Well, the funny thing is you can't be with Nealhunt AND Corey.  While they both agree that there should be no burning activations, they DISAGREE on regrouping off board.

So here is your updated recap:
Moscovian agrees with Neal.
MNB agrees with Neal.
Corey thinks this is abusive because of the regrouping off board.
Ginger thinks you should be able to use marshall actions off board and not come on the board (called 'burning' an activation).
Chroma agrees with Ginger on the burning of activations but also agrees with Neal on the regrouping off board.
Hena agrees with Corey that the regrouping is abusive but disagrees  with Ginger that burning activations should be allowed.
Corey wears his "I   Jervis" T-Shirt to bed.
Chroma is trying to secretly take over all Epic Champ positions.
Moscovian burns Jervis in effigy.
Zombocom is still annoyed and waiting for the NetERC to make a decision.
Stompzilla thinks that Neal and Corey agree but they really don't and is irritated about the thread length.
Morgan Vening said something along the way that Moscovian can't seem to remember.
Honda is avoiding answering all pertinent questions on the Elysian thread. -Oh wait! Wrong thread!-  

Is that better?

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Secretly?!?  

I thought I've been positively ham-fisted about it!  *laugh*

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What was the question again  

I thought that the above quote was from 6.1.6 which is pre game set-up.

I thought this took precedent, especially the highlighted part.



with the only exception being Aircraft do not rally as in 4.2.7

Either way it will need an FAQ to say if formations of board can or cannot rally.

That just leads to a wider question of is off board reserves?

I'd say no as the portal rules in swordwind don't use the word reserve, probably to show they are different to reserves as described in the rule book.

Of course I may be giving Jervis too much credit

It's more that Jervis is quite friendly and not a rules-lawyer by any means and gives the players in the head of battle too much credit!

The rulebooks aren't legal documents, in that they are not fine-toothed combed for minute differences in meaning; they're written to be used by friendly, reasonable players... unfortunately, we can all become "unreasonable" when our positions are questioned... especially if we can't find evidence we thought we had for those positions!  *laugh*  I do like to post rules quotes, just to get people all on the same page as it were, to see *where* their positions have come from.

It's probably safe to assume that "off board" and "in reserve" are, essentially, the same thing.

Now, newer armies that use the "off board" space for effects may require rules that excempt them from certain normal limitations, there's nothing wrong with that, those rules just need to be *reasonably* clear.

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Well by the letter of 6.1.6 formations in reserve can take no game functions, so broken formations in transport aircraft can't rally. Which is counter to how its currently played in UK tournament circles.

I found this, and posted it to the other thread.

From the FAQ


I think it's pretty clear that Webway is a reserve type.

Morgan Vening

1.) I do not worship Jervis.  I have no other gods before me.  

2.) Necron rules rather specifically state that they are, in fact, placed into the reserves when they are off-board.

3.) Necron rules also specifically state that they rally at the end of turn just like everything else.

So, if you go by the existing rules, Off-board (reserve) Necrons can:

1.) Rally at the end of turn.
2.) Come Onto the board.
3.) Do nothing else.

Specific situational clarifications can be made.

For example:
a. Failed Activations - Player can choose to move on the board, or choose to end his activation.
b. Regrouping can be done for a formation that activates ON BOARD with a marshall action and moves into the reserve.  This is because they began the activation on the board, and so can finish it. (not my favorite concept, but I can live with it for that reason).

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If I had to guess, I would say that the Swordwind book refers to the troops as in the webway as to distinguish the formations there from teleporters and aircraft laden with troops.  This way Swooping Hawks could be distinguished as not being in the webway (allowing four formations off board instead of three).  It also keeps the Eldar player honest by forcing him to distinguish between what is in the webway and what isn't.

Okay, page eight is here and I think everyone has stated what they believe.  Here is my suggestion:

NetERC- You know how everybody feels.  The armies that are the most effected are the Eldar lists, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, and predominantly the Necron.  Fortunately you've heard from all the army list developers and you know what we think.  Just give us a solid answer to move forward with.  I think Neal intended to do that but the post didn't explicitly state it was THE decision which explains the four pages of discussion that followed it.

After that I am sure it will be easy to decide how the rules for the Necron will need to be worded.  It also allows me to put said FAQ into the Raiders book.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

And, in case it is unclear, perhaps we ought to list the points to be decided which revolve around the off-table actions permitted to a formation :-

• Rallying off-table, (both when starting to Rally off-table, and if Necrons move off-table during a Marshall)
  
• Regrouping off-table as part of a Marshall or Hold
  
• In order to stay off-table, whether to 'burn' an activation (Hold) or 'pass' at the end of the turn
  
• Whether failing an activation (or 'burning' an activation) still blocks a 'Gate for later use by another formation
  
• Exiting 'Gates in an enemy ZoC (though this seems reasonably understood)
  
• How the above need to be modified for any of the affected races eg
  - Can Necrons regroup off-table twice per turn (if that is deemed abusive),
  - Can formations regroup in off-table transport
  - etc

Other aspects that are reasonably understood but that possibly ought to be restated are definitions like

• Lesser and Greater Daemons in the Daemon pool
  
• Setting up off-table (formation entry mechanisms must be specified and may not be altered)
  
• Formations in on-table transport are themselves 'on-table'
  
• Character abilities cannot be used (except the SC reroll for the formation he is in)

Finally if possible, an answer to the vexed question of whether a non-formation 'Gate may be blocked (WraithGate, Tomb Complex etc)

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