Thus why I said this at the beginning...


Black Legion, why does your analysis make the range on a Pylon go to 60cm instead of 90cm like the Shadowsword?  If they start with identical ranges in 40K, then they should have near identical ranges in Epic, right?

Of course the fluff needs to be taken into account too.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

My pet example:
Look at the Hydra. It has twio Twin-linked Longbarelled Autocannons in Wh40k. Those have a range of 72". Thats the same range as a LemanRuss Battlecannon which has a range of 75cm in Epic.
Obvioulsy the Hydra ha sonly a 45cm range in Epic. Why is that so?
Look at aircrafts.
You will notice that Aircraft-mounted weapons which have an AA value have no change in range if they have a Fixed Forward Arc.
They have a -15cm if they have a wider fire arc. Best example here are the Twin Heavy Bolters on the Thunderhawk.

So the Hydra has a 360° fire arc. So this explains a -15cm reduction of its range. This wpuld place it at 60cm range. But why the additional -15cm range whichresults in the Hydras 45cm range? I can only explain this so because it is a ground based AA unit.

Conclusion:
The Pylon has the same WH40k range as a Shadowsword Volcano Cannon.
BUT it has a 360° AA Fire Arc which reduces its range by -15cm AND it is a ground based AA unit which reduces its range by a further -15cm to 60cm.
The to-hit value remains unchanged.

Logical? Confusing? Necessary?  

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BL, while agree that there is a coloration between W40k and EA stats I think AA weapons are the exception. I believe AA ranges were reduced to make aircraft more viable and fun given their rules in EA (namely, given that they don't disengage until the end phase).

That being said, if the Pylon's weapon has Volcano Cannon stats in W40k, give it Volcano Cannon stats in EA. Since we have to have a separate line for the AA option anyway, I'd say keep the range at 60-75cm there. There's no precedence for anything greater than that in the official lists. AA ranges were kept short for a reason, at the very least you have to account for the altitude of the aircraft as well.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Staying within the parameters of the game is:


I have always worked out the stats of the weapons in Epic the same way BL does, so Volcano cannon for me!! just add an AA value with same range and power.

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Epic Armageddon in Spanish: http://www.box.net/shared/aii6v2xqu3

While I appreciate your work on that, it won't fix the problems with the Pylon, either percieved or real.

And while I don't think that what the consensus proposal address the real problems with the Pylon, the do, at least, have the virtue of addressing the perceived problem that it poses for that single army list.

Those stats would make it MORE deadly against WE flyers by increasing it's accuracy.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

But it halves the current range (60cm instead of 120cm).
Part of the problem mentioned is that two Pylons can cover almost the complete board.

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with 60cm and Teleport, two pylons can still cover the board, with a notably greater chance to hit, and thus one-shot a EW transport.

_________________
Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

60cm and drop the AA to 5+??

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Epic Armageddon in Spanish: http://www.box.net/shared/aii6v2xqu3

I think a better option would be to make it more effective against as a general AA platform, rather than something that's only effective against WE transports.

That's why I think dropping TK, and giving it multiple shots would be a better alternative.

_________________
Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Lord Bruno, when do you think you will have time to test those stats you are proposing?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

how about we test the new stats.... you know the ones that we've been talking about for a year...... the same ones that have been decided on by ALL the necron players (except one) up to this point

Well that just makes too much sense Matt.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

Once my mate Midian finish painting his necron army (and the awesome "death ray" from otterware), playing with proxies or unpainted minis is not inspiring.

Excuse me if I am being too harsh in my posts, but I only try to keep things in perspective. After a great effort, now that we have a "real" necron army, I don´t want to see how they go away from the fluff.



I have always seen the Pylon as some kind of "Death Ray", a one hit wonder like a volcano cannon and other TK weaponry, very efective against few good troops(SM), and poor against hordes (orks).

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Well then Corey's suggestion wouldn't work for you.  The Pylon is supposed to be able to shoot into space, isn't it?  So I suppose technically it should have unlimited range when it comes to aircraft if we matched the fluff.  The current incarnation does more to match what you are looking for than the update or any other proposal.

So what are we to do then?  I suppose upping the price of the Pylon would help some, but opponents who are fielding transports filled with expensive formations are still going to run into the same problem and the price of the Pylon can only go so high.

The truth is there is no real easy solution to the matter and IMO we're dealing with something that just needs to be tweaked for external balance issues.  It isn't like the proposed stats has them shooting gauss launched daisies or moving at 35cm; i.e. the proposed stats aren't so far off the mark as to make it a different unit.  Sometimes in Epic there are changes that take place for the sake of the game and little else.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

IMHO keep the fluff and balance with points costs.

_________________
Epic Armageddon in Spanish: http://www.box.net/shared/aii6v2xqu3