They are not much bigger than Terminators are they not?

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People really need to break out of the box that LV *just* relates to size, even relative size.

LV should also be looked at as "heavy infantry" for smaller units that have larger sized individuals, but, usually, not as many individuals in a squad; killing 1-2 Terminators in a squad of five is less likely to render them combat ineffective than taking out 1-2 Obliterators in a squad of three... that's what LV can also represent.

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Then changing this in the rules may assist with the breaking out of the box (quoted fron 2008 handbook):

2.1.10
The only difference between
light vehicles and armoured vehicles is that light vehicles
can be affected by AP fire as well as AT fire

1.1.1
Armoured vehicles are represented by a single
model.


Changing them to 1-3 on a base would suffice. I know I count Juggers as LV and they are ~2 per base

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Again i propose Heavy Infantry as a new unit type.

But i'm not sure if Obliterators should be more vulnerable than Terminators.
A Squad (read: a base) of 1-3 Obliterators has 2-6 Wounds. A Squad (read: a base) of 5 Terminators has 5 Wounds.
The difference is that high Strength weapons would kill an Obliterator with one hit regardless that a lower Strength weapon would need two hits.
So Obliterators COULD be suceptible to AT weapons.

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There is no need to add a new name for something that exists. Just use LV with some explanation text.

But I'll say this again, remove AA and the oblit is pretty pointless for retinues.

Heavy infantry was pretty unanimously rejected last time it was discussed

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I know. To similar to Light Vehicle etc.

And how can Obliterators not be useful to Retinues? They are Fearless, have top armour, provide plenty of firepower plus they provide FF and CC prowess.
Could be transported in Chaos Land Raiders ( i know not currently but we can change the Chaos Land Raider to do so).

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See my last sentence.

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I'll get better use out of a pact and 2 more lesser daemons and for retinues that used to have 2 havoc's will be better. So I lose one fearless unit but gain in all other respects.

If the AA has to go then just drop them entirely as they really don't add much to the list.

So how would you feel about making them LV and adding Walker then Meph?

LV was talked about a long time ago and I think someone may even have tested it!

Walker, why not they have every other special rule   seriously though I wouldn't as if you want to put your Oblits in cover take the risk.

So without AA they are either to expensive or nit powerful enough?

So two suggestions (as keeping AA is out of the question for me):

a) decrease their points cost.

b) add MW to their FF Extra Attack (they can morph every energy bases weapon including Meltaguns).

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The problem then becomes similar to the Broadside issue. They would be barred from entering Buildings, Jungles and Rivers.

Essentially, the "Heavy Infantry" rule was for the inverse of LV.

Light Vehicle = Armoured Vehicle susceptible to AP Fire.
Heavy Infantry = Infantry susceptible to AT Fire.

I suppose you could make up a variation on Mounted.
Mounted = Infantry count as Vehicles for movement.
Agile = Vehicles count as Infantry for movement.

Only problem there is you are adding two special abilities (LV + Agile) instead of the one.

Oh, and for the record, I'm for Obliterators losing AA. Or at least making it 6+. I see their role as a FF Terminator equivalent. The AA is overmuch.

Morgan Vening

So the question remains, what to do?

1. Points reduction seems to be the easiest thing to do
2. Changing their abilities can be much more fiddly

So, what if they cost the same as a terminator unit? Do their abilities make them worth adding to the formation?

I realize I am approaching them from a Red Corsairs perspective, where I've added them to a teleporting terminator formation, but it's seems like they ought to provide similar capabilities within each list (BL and RC).

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