I'm building my additional Aspect stands, in order to create more rounded Aspect formations, but I'm having problems deciding how to allocate my Exarchs, and what to do with my two Warp Spider stands.

My formations are currently thus:

1. 8 Swooping Hawks (2 Exarchs)
2. 8 Dark Reapers (2 Exarchs)
3. 2 Dire Avengers, 4 Fire Dragons & 2 Striking Scorpions
4. 4 Dire Avengers, 2 Fire Dragons & Striking Scorpions
5. 2 Dire Avengers, 2 Fire Dragons, 2 Striking Scorpions & ?

I have two Fire Dragon Exarchs and Dire Avenger Exarchs, and four other generic Exarch models which I can allocate, but only four stands of Avengers, four stands of Dragons, and two stands of Scorpions are unassembled, so this is where the Exarchs would have to be placed.  One of the Exarchs can also be the Autarch.

Bearing these restrictions in mind, where would you place the Exarchs?  I'm currently thinking of not taking any Dire Avenger Exarchs, allocating an Autarch to one of the Fire Dragon stands, as well as one of the Exarchs, and then making a Striking Scorpion stand in two of the formations into an Exarch, but what are your thoughts?

Also, do Striking Scorpion Exarchs gain the +1A for the Mandiblasters?

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I'd recommend a different force org.

Dark Reapers are a ranged fire formation, while Exarchs are assault troops.  Don't add Exarchs to them in most cases.

Use DR Exarchs with Dire Avengers for a monster FF formation - 6 DAs, 2 DR w/ Exarch is 12 FF4+, 4 FF3+ attacks, 2 Inspiring.  The DRs also give them the ability to place BMs if needed.

Similarly, I would make a CC-focused Host using mostly Scorpions, possibly with a Fire Dragon or two for a bit of FF and the ability to place BMs.  You could put the Exarchs in the Fire Dragons to keep them out of CC and preserve your Inspiring or in the Scorpions for the extra CC.  Either way works.

That would leave you with a primarily Fire Dragon Host for tank-hunting and good FF, especially if you mix in a few Dire Avengers.  Exarchs go in the Fire Dragons.

If you're very restricted to exactly those models, I'd say...

1. 8 Swooping Hawks, 2 Exarchs
2. 6 Dark Reapers, 2 Fire Dragons (no exarchs)
3. 6 Dire Avengers, 2 Reaper Exarchs
4. 6 Scorpions, 2 Fire Dragon Exarchs
5. 4 Fire Dragons, 2 Dire Avenger Exarchs, 2 Scorpions (though all FF aspects would work better)

#2 - Fire Dragons boost your FF if you are in a position to assault and provide short range support if you are in a position to shoot and support a follow on assault.

#5 - Just a general purpose host based on the remnants.  It's mostly FF but the DA Exarchs can switch-hit and with the Scorpions can make a good showing in CC.

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Neal

My Preference would be:

1) 8 Hawks w/ 2 exarchs

2) 8 Dragons w/ 2 Exarchs

3) 2 Dark Reaper Exarchs and 6 Dire Avengers

4) 4 Dire Avengers and 4 Striking Scorpions with 2 Exarchs and an Autarch

1) and 2) are specialist formations, and those aspects work best 'pure' IMO.

3) is my favorite Aspect Warhost. With 4 3+ FF and 12 4+ FF, it will seriously tear just about anything up, and excels at clipping, especially mounted.

4) is not usually my cup of tea, but pretty effective. You get 8 4+ FF and 10 4+ CC, and 1 4+ MW CC attack. The CC aspects mean that you cannot clip with this formation, but 9 hits with .5 MW hit will do brutal things to nearly anything w/out RA.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I like an all round formation of
3x Dire Avengers
3x Striking Scorpions
2x Fire Dragons (1x Exarch and 1x Autarch)

Put in 4x Wave Serpents (which act as a front-line barrier with the Striking Scorpions) this gives you a formation with some BM placing ability and good both in all FF, and best with limited CC as well.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.  Taking a lot of it on board,  I have decided I quite like the following options:

Aspect Warhost 1: 8 Swooping Hawks with two Exarchs
Aspect Warhost 2: 6 Dark Reapers, 2 Fire Dragons - Would it be better to deploy these out of a Wraithgate or give them Wave Serpents?
Aspect Warhost 3: 6 Dire Avengers, 2 Dark Reapers with Exarchs, 4 Wave Serpents.
Aspect Warhost 4: 6 Striking Scorpions, 2 Fire Dragons with Exarch and Autarch, 4 Wave Serpents.
Aspect Warhost 5: 4 Fire Dragons, 2 Dire Avengers with Exarchs, ?

I have three questions:

1. See my comment about Warhost two above.
2. Have I got the Autarch in the right place?
3. I do not know how to finish Aspect Warhost five.  I only have the following models left to pick from: Warp Spiders or Howling Banshees.  The former will not work if I want to mount this unit in Wave Serpents, and I don't think it's wise to field them on foot, while the latter are not all that effective, but I do want to use one of these options, so any suggestions as to which would be better?

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My favorite too.
Sometimes I swap 2 Avengers for 2 Scorpions, in order to get a 4+ save from behind.

Including 1 or 2 Dark Reapers stands in an Aspect formation is always usefull. Not for the firepower (rather anecdotic for a non full Dark Reaper ost) but the invaluable ability to spread some blast marker.
And FF3+ is always a good choice for an Exarch.

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Given that the aspects only have 5+ armour and 15cm move, once they are deployed out of the 'gate they will be quite limited in their movement. I would therefore pay the extra 200 for Wave Serpents which gives these guys the movement they need to move rapidly into position to support an assault or two as well as extra protection. Against the right opponent they can be left inside the Wave Serpents giving them extra range for shooting / assault.

IMHO Yes. A fire Dragon Autarch (or a Dark Reaper Autarch) has two roles, to inspire the troops and to place a BM. The MW FF assault is OK, but only hits 1:3 times, so cannot be relied upon.

I would follow Neal's suggestion and go for an all 'FF' aspect, so use 4 Fire Dragons, 2 Dire Avengers with Exarchs, and 2 Warp Spiders. Note you will need to take care on their positioning as the Warp Spiders may deprive the other aspects of a target, but they do have better armour as well. For better mobility deploy them through a Storm Serpent wraith gate somehwere in the centre of the battlefield where they can support several assaults without having to move to far.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I was afraid you would say that, since I'm struggling to find the points to afford sufficient Wave Serpents for all my Aspect formations in my 5000 point list, although if I take Warp Spiders in the fifth warhost, that group cannot use Wave Serpents anyway, so I could make a change here, but I don't fancy using that formation out of the Wraithgate as much as the second warhost, since at least the Dark Reapers have a decent range.  Anyway, I'll post my full army list below, so that you can see where cuts could be made to accommodate more Wave Serpents.

On the Warp Spiders, I'm not sure what you mean about their perhaps depriving the other Aspects of a target, could you elaborate a bit on that?

Army list:

Wraithgate: 50
Avatar: N/A

Aspect Warhost 1: 8 Swooping Hawks including 2 Exarchs: 350 (will teleport in)
Aspect Warhost 2: 6 Dark Reapers, 2 Fire Dragons: 300 (deployment via Wraithgate)
Aspect Warhost 3: 6 Dire Avengers, 2 Dark Reapers with Exarchs, 4 Wave Serpents: 550
Aspect Warhost 4: 6 Striking Scorpions, 2 Fire Dragons with Exarch and Autarch, 4 Wave Serpents: 600
Aspect Warhost 5: 4 Fire Dragons, 2 Dire Avengers with Exarchs, 2 Howling Banshees, 4 Wave Serpents: 550

Guardian Warhost: Farseer, 7 Guardians, 2 Wraithguard, 3 Wraithlords: 425 (deployment via Wraithgate)

Swords of Vaul Troupe: 5 Falcons, 1 Fire Prism: 315
Ranger Troupe: 8 Rangers: 200
Engines of Vaul Troupe: 2 Scorpions: 500

Warlock Titan: 850
Nightwings: 300

Total: 4990

The way I see it, I can only really afford to cut the Rangers to accommodate the Wave Serpents, but I finally have a larger formation to try to get them to be more effective, hence why I was going to try them out.

Any thoughts about how else I could fit the Wave Serpents in?  If cutting the Rangers is the best option though, I will go for it.

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[quote="Irisado,Dec. 27 2009, 22:42 "][/quote]
I would cut aspect host #5 and add the wave serpents to host #3. #5 is kind of a remainder formation, without any clear role, IMO.

-350pt

Remove 1 Stand Of Rangers

-25

Add a War Walker Troupe, and deploy it in between the Rangers. if you keep both in coherency, and alternate Rangers and War Walkers, your opponent has a line 140cm long that he/she cannot cross without using two activations minimum.

+200pt

Add a Windrider troupe. This will keep pace with your Transports and be able to add supporting fire when needed>

+200pt

replace your Fire Prism with a Firestorm. Your Titan is your only ground-based AA, and the firestorm is able to lend weight of fire to the Falcons. I personally try to keep my Falcons and Prisms in seperate Troupes, to take advantage of the differing ranges.

-15

New Total: 5000

Gingers statement about the Warp Spiders depriving the rest of the formation of targets is in referance to their First Strike. Since hits are taken front to back, it is possible that the Spiders will kill all units w/in 15cm, leaving your other stands with nothing to fight.

SG

*edited because i forgot your guardians deployed through the WG*

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I had thought about removing the fifth warhost, I think I only really wanted to keep it because I really love Fire Dragons, but I can see that my list isn't as well balanced as it could be, so, taking your suggestions into account, here is the revised list:

Wraithgate: 50
Avatar: N/A

Aspect Warhost 1: 8 Swooping Hawks including 2 Exarchs: 350 (will teleport in)
Aspect Warhost 2: 6 Dark Reapers, 2 Fire Dragons, 4 Wave Serpents: 500
Aspect Warhost 3: 6 Dire Avengers, 2 Dark Reapers with Exarchs, 4 Wave Serpents: 550
Aspect Warhost 4: 6 Striking Scorpions, 2 Fire Dragons with Exarch and Autarch, 4 Wave Serpents: 600

Guardian Warhost: Farseer, 7 Guardians, 2 Wraithguard, 3 Wraithlords: 425 (deployment via Wraithgate)

Swords of Vaul Troupe: 5 Falcons, 1 Firestorm: 300
Ranger Troupe: 7 Rangers: 175
War Walker Troupe: 6 War Walkers: 200
Windrider Troupe: 6 Jetbikes: 200
Engines of Vaul Troupe: 2 Scorpions: 500

Warlock Titan: 850
Nightwings: 300

Total: 5000

I still have a few concerns though:

1. I'm not really sure how the War Walker/Ranger deployment would work.  In previous games that I have used these, they both tend to get horribly shot up, so won't deploying them in a long line just make both units very vulnerable to being blown to pieces?  I'm sure there is a nuance I'm probably missing, but you may need to help me out when it comes to seeing it.

2. I was contemplating adding a second Guardian squad (which could deploy via the Wraithgate) in lieu of either the Jetbikes or War Walkers.  Would this be better, particularly regarding the addition of another Farseer, or is one Farseer plus the Warlock Titan sufficient in terms of units with the Farsight ability?

Thanks for all the help so far, it's very useful.

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The thing to remember about your Rangers and War Walkers is that their utility is less as combat powerhouses, and more to ensure that the enemy does what you wish.

When deploying them, try to keep them in cover as much as possible, to increase their survivability. Remember that only AC can cross ZOC, so in order to cross this line, the enemy has only two options.

First, go around. This means that the enemy will be concentrated in a smaller peice of board, where you can take advantage of triple activations, hit and run, and supporting fire more easily.

Second, use a minimum of two activations to move/remove the formations. Shooting and engagements will be hampered by the sheer amount of territory they cover, as well as being in cover.

Since the formations are interlocked, even if one unit is destroyed/moves, there is still a solid ZoC presented by the other unit. Also remember that when broken you are not required to move at all, so as long as the enemy is >15cm away, stay put!

As to the Guardians, your first Warhost is beefy, and should take a lot of punishment if used correctly. I you had room for a Storm Serpent or two, I would be all for adding webway assault units, but as you only have 1 Webway portal, you are restricting ~700pts to the near vicinity of 1 objective. All your opponent has to do is put their objectives at far ends of the board, and these units can be pretty much stranded. I would recommend using a unit with less suprise, but more reach.

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I am starting to see what both you and Ginger (in the Eldar Strategy and tactics thread) have been saying about the War Walkers and Rangers now, and I recognise that I have not used them very well in my previous games.  I think that using them as part of a refused flank strategy could work quite well, so I am now thinking about deploying them between and in some buildings (in the case of the Rangers), in order to basically cut off one flank which my opponent could attack with fast moving units.

I take your point about the second unit of Guardians and objective placement.  I don't own any Storm Serpents either, so I cannot include any to make my deployment via a Wraithgate more flexible either, so I will leave the list as it us, unless there are any further suggestions.

Thanks for all your help.

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This 5000 point army only has 12 activations, and so I am not sure that it will be viable, even in a 'friendly' game against a similarly 'fluffy' opponent.

• Most opposing armies will field 15-20 formations, and some could field more, which will leave the Eldar badly out-activated. This is exacerbated by having two formations off-table;
  
  
• The limited Anti-aircraft capability means that the Night-Wings must try to CAP or Intercept enemy aircraft, but will probably fall to superior numbers of enemy fighters. This will leave the Eldar vulnerable to 2nd and 3rd round Air assaults.
  
  
• The lack of artillery and limited long-range shooting capacity leaves the Eldar unable to counter such threats. This is probably the biggest issue with the proposed list because of the innate lack of BM removal.

In summary I would expect the army to suffer a significant amount of long-range shooting, slowing down the bulk of the army and allowing the more numerous opponents to pick off formations and preventing the Eldar from closing to assault.

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If you want to go down this route of multiple Aspect formations, I would lose the Warlock and get at least one more set of Guardians (probably in wave serpents) to be able to make better use of the Avatar (as well as the farseer 'Commander'). I would also look for a Void Spinner if possible, or possibly two Night Spinner formations (though these are more difficult to use).
If your are not fielding 2 Storm Serpents, I would drop the wraithgate and start the Guardians on-table by the Blitz (which is where they would probably come on anyway).  
I would definitely field the Rangers in two formations of '4' which still cover the same amount of table but are twice as hard to shift - if you drop the gate, they could go up to '5' each; and also consider splitting the Scorpions.

These changes will increase the army to 15-16 activations, which is still low but more viable.  

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More than any other race, the Eldar seem to benefit from majoring on one strategy. You either need to use the Warlock (with lots of support), or find ways of getting the Aspects into position (with lots of support). The other elements are finding ways of countering, minimising or avoiding enemy threats.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I'm playing against a Space Marine force which has around fifteen formations, so I know I'm a few short on that score, but I was trying to build a very aggressive list, because my Guardians on foot hadn't worked at all in my previous games, but taking Wave Serpents chews up a lot of points.

I had thought about dropping the Swooping Hawks to free up some points, as I could fit a couple of Guardian squads without upgrades into the list by removing them, but I could not make up my mind as to whether this was worthwhile.

I'm not worried about anti-aircraft ability, since I know that my opponent only has two Thunderhawk Gunships, so I'm pretty sure that the Nightwings can deal with those (this is the only reason why they are included in my list in any case, as I don't really like flyers very much), or am I mistaken?

If I were playing against Imperial Guard, I would expect the issue of a lack of long-range shooting capacity to be a major issue, but Space Marines don't have much long ranged fire support either, so is this really going to be a problem?  I have used Night Spinners against Marines before, and they were singularly unimpressive, and I don't own any Void Spinners, so they are not an option.

I was planning on using the Warlock Titan and Aspect Warriors to launch a very powerful flank attack, and given the power of the Warlock Titan in assaults, I thought it fitted perfectly with the Aspect Warriors.  What have I missed?  I really do want to keep the Warlock Titan, as I haven't used it yet, and it's my favourite model in my entire army.

On splitting the Rangers into two squads, doesn't this make them too easy to break?  This is what kept happening in my previous games, although I do agree with you that it would help with activations.

In summary, I certainly agree with you about the activations, and I am quite happy to drop the Swooping Hawks to take two other formations in their place, as well as divide the Rangers into two formations, assuming you can convince me that they will be durable enough, but otherwise I'm a bit stuck as the Warlock Titan and Wave Serpent mounted Aspect Warriors are the centrepiece of my attack, so I don't really want to drop them.

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Ok, so you are playing Marines and know your opponent's army (or are trying to develop compatible armies together prior to fighting), and are trying to become more familiar with both the rules and the army lists. So much depends on what else he is fielding. At a guess, along with the ThunderHawks he is using a Warlord titan together with 2-3 upgraded Tactical formations, Terminators and a mix of standard Marine formations.

1. Yes, I would keep the Nightwings in as a deterent to the ThunderHawks.
2. Drop the gate and use the points to have 9 Rangers split into two formations.
3. Split the Scorpions into two separate formations.
4. If you have the models and the Marines are using Whirlwinds, consider exchanging the Swooping Hawks for Guardians in Wave Serpents. They are more durable (if kept inside), quite apart from a lot of other advantages.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt