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Dreadclaws
Steve54
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:32 am 
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A few months ago there was a long discussion about dreadclaws - have any of the options discussed been tested at all?

I don't recall seeing any.

If not then I think the choice for dreadclaws is either - stay as they are or the easiest revision - no deathwind+no scatter. Which represents the movement of the pod by allowing exact positioning.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:31 am 
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We are using them this way: you buy them as an upgrade that allows a drop with scatter (no Deathwind).

We are pricing them at 25 points per 2 units transported (Note: the World Eater list will be different due to their assault capability)  

They appear fine as they are. We have more than a few games under our belts to show these results.

Thought for the future: Marines gain Drop Pods with Deathwind for less than Chaos. This seems ludicrous when combined with a better strategy rating. The Dreadclaw is a superior transport. A change should be reviewed. Even giving Chaos the deathwind attack to represent their effectiveness on an Epic scale is warranted IMO.

Otherwise, it just appears Chaos is taking a loss on these for no good reason.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:33 pm 
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At the least, Dreadclaws should lose the Deathwind attack.

Keeping it is just wrong.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 28 2009, 23:33 )

At the least, Dreadclaws should lose the Deathwind attack.

Keeping it is just wrong.

They don't have the Deathwind attack.   :rock:

Are we talking about the same thing?  

:grin:

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GlynG
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:08 pm 
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Though I kind of liked the idea of mobile transport Dreadclaws no deathwind + no scatter seems the simplest and best fix for them.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ Dec. 28 2009, 19:06 )

They don't have the Deathwind attack.   :rock:

Are we talking about the same thing?  

Yes, but you seem not to know what the stats are for Dreadclaws.

They are functionally identical to loyalist Drop Pods, including posessing the Deathwind attack.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Quote: (GlynG @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:08 )

Though I kind of liked the idea of mobile transport Dreadclaws no deathwind + no scatter seems the simplest and best fix for them.

I must admit that the scatter on the Dreadclaws has had very limited effect in our games. The Dreadclaw is maneuverable so how about this suggestion:

Place the point of entry, yet instead of rolling the scatter dice, roll the 2D6 and the Chaos Player whos turn it is gets to decide on the direction.

This would allow more control over the drop and make it different from the marine drop. It would more represent a Dreadclaw and not a drop pod.

No Deathwind. No random scatter. Same cost.

Thoughts?   :grin:

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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:12 )

They are functionally identical to loyalist Drop Pods, including posessing the Deathwind attack.

I am not understanding. In the top post you advise that they should lose it when they appear not to have it.

In this quoted post you state that they have it.

I am confused   :down:

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Quote: (GlynG @ Dec. 28 2009, 19:08 )

Though I kind of liked the idea of mobile transport Dreadclaws no deathwind + no scatter seems the simplest and best fix for them.

I still like it as it adds something new and interesting to the list (a teleporting Skimmer transport would be unique), but since that would require a model being available it is admittedly problematic.

So to my chargrin it seems we must walk the path of least resistance, instead of the path of optimum results.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:17 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:15 )

but since that would require a model being available it is admittedly problematic.

The Grey Army has them in some form do they not?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ Dec. 28 2009, 19:15 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:12 )

They are functionally identical to loyalist Drop Pods, including posessing the Deathwind attack.

I am not understanding. In the top post you advise that they should lose it when they appear not to have it.

In this quoted post you state that they have it.

I am confused   :down:

The official Dreadclaw stats are functionally identical to loyalist Drop Pods.

Steve offers two choices in the thread-opening post, either:

"stay as they are"
or
"the easiest revision - no deathwind+no scatter. Which represents the movement of the pod by allowing exact positioning"

I have put my support behind that "easiest revision".

I can only conclude that you are indeed confused.

====

Steve does not offer the option of everyone undertaking some playtesting of the third option (the Teleporting, Skimmer Dreadclaw AV transport), indicating that previous lack of testing indicates a stillborn idea (despite the absence of a Chaos Champion to provide leadership on this issue previously).

I would not be adverse to undertaking some batrep/playtest games of the concept, if it has any community backing.




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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:57 pm 
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I like your second option Steve. Simple is good and no scatter definitely makes them more accurate.

cheers  :yay:
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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:22 )

I can only conclude that you are indeed confused.

:laugh:

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frogbear
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Quote: (Steve54 @ Dec. 28 2009, 16:32 )

If not then I think the choice for dreadclaws is either - stay as they are or the easiest revision - no deathwind+no scatter. Which represents the movement of the pod by allowing exact positioning.

From playtesting (and I have a bit of experience with these), the initial drop is obviously guesswork that does not appear to suit the role of the Dreadclaw.

Now I am happy for people to prove me wrong on this, but wouldn't my idea of being able to scatter the Dreadclaw 2D6 (or up to 2D6) in the direction that the Chaos Player who's turn it is wants, represent the Dreadclaw better than other proposals?

Rather than guesswork, it would bring a certain control to the drop which is exactly what you should have with Dreadclaws. It will also allow the Chaos player to correct any mistakes in deployment which you would expoect from a maneuverable craft such as the Dreadclaw.

As a person that has used them extensively, I find that this would be the best option.

Is this being ignored or do others have an opinion? Furthermore, is that opinion based on actual playtests with Dreadclaws?

:grin:




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Dreadclaws
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:24 pm 
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A bit much control isn't it? You already can move a DropPod marker upto 15cm after the 2D6cm scatter.

With your porposal you can reposition the Dreadclaw 2D6cm and then a further 15cm.


I favour:
Behaves exactly as DropPods but without Deathwind attack and without the 2D6cm scatter.

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