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Clean Up Questions/Comments

 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:54 am 
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Actually, just brainstorming here, but Honda, have you thought about tying a Skysweep formation to a FW formation as an upgrade, not as a stand alone formation. It would completely nullify your boogieman all-crisis-skyray list. From my p.o.v, I see the FWs as the formation that should get everything available to it as an upgrade and I seem to remember the 40K artwork/box front to show Skyweeps working alongside FWs...

Please note,I haven't considered how the upgrade would effect the strength of the FW fm.





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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:07 am 
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Are Piranha supposed to be FF5+ (like firewarriros) or FF6+ like Devilfish (whose weapons they match)? We assumed it was a typo and they are FF6+.

SMS - 30cm or 15cm?




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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:20 am 
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SMS is definitely 30cm on all previous lists and that's how I've been playing it on this list with no problems to report.




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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:43 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ Dec. 13 2009, 03:54 )

Actually, just brainstorming here, but Honda, have you thought about tying a Skysweep formation to a FW formation as an upgrade, not as a stand alone formation. It would completely nullify your boogieman all-crisis-skyray list. From my p.o.v, I see the FWs as the formation that should get everything available to it as an upgrade and I seem to remember the 40K artwork/box front to show Skyweeps working alongside FWs...

Please note,I haven't considered how the upgrade would effect the strength of the FW fm.

I kinda like this idea. Not sure I like Skysweep hiding inside the FW's though. Probably a bit too much synergy there.

Give a '*' to the Pathfinder, Armour, Skysweep and Kroot (mebee Recon?) and have them only selectable for Fire Warrior formations? It'd make sense IMO that the rapid response Crisis Team wouldn't want to be tied down with these formations.

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:07 pm 
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@Onyx:

Quote: 

Did you correct the Twin Missile Pods on the AX-1-0 (reference sheet)?
They should be AP5+/AT6+.

Also the Manta Burst Cannons on the reference sheet had no firepower entry.
Should be AP5+/AA6+.


I will confirm.

@Dobbsy:

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Personally, while I like the idea of new "characters" I'm against it for 3 reasons:

1/Stealths are already pretty nifty and don't really need a character boost - even if it is the SC
2/One character across an entire civilisation strapped into a stealth suit does not a Supreme-Commander for-any-Tau army-build make
3/I'm not keen to add new stuff in a list that is truthfully nearing completion. I would trial it in your own lists and maybe look at adding it in a future version after the lock down.


That’s fine. It was just an idea and it wouldn't increase my royalty percentage so I'm not married to it.   :grin:

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Honda, will this be open for all to see in draft form so we can all pick up errors?


Absolutely, as quickly as we can get it into your hands.

Quote: 

TBH Honda, I think you may be worried about nothing.


As the old saying goes, “From your lips to God’s earsâ€Â

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 13 2009, 11:07 )

Quote: 

Are Piranha supposed to be FF5+? We assumed it was a typo.

That  is what Piranha are listed as. I assumed that was correct. Is it not?

We couldn't see how it would be, hence thinking it would be on par with other Tau similar vehicles like the Tetra, Skyray and Devilfish, not the Hammerhead.

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:14 pm 
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@Hena: Ok, I understand now. I will correct to AP5+

@TRC: Yer dancin' man. You don't think it's correct, but you're not telling me what you think it is supposed to be. Specifics. Is it supposed to be up or down? AP5+? LMK.

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 13 2009, 13:14 )

@TRC: Yer dancin' man. You don't think it's correct, but you're not telling me what you think it is supposed to be. Specifics. Is it supposed to be up or down? AP5+? LMK.

Sorry, wasn't being clear enough. We thought it should be FF6+ to be on par with similar units, not have the same firefight as a hammerhead, firewarrior stand etc, hence assuming FF5+ must be a typo.

As to AP5+ or not, would be a balance thing for it and the devilfish, not a typo per say and I've already said what i think about Piranha and Tetra :)

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 13 2009, 11:07 )

What I also see is the possibility of castle-ing the Skyrays so that all they are supposed to do is keep aircraft at bay. Then the multitude of Crisis formations maneuver to a flank, always passing their first order and having a good chance of passing a retain. A plethora of smallish crisis suit formations allows the Tau player to pour lots of formations to a single point.

Honda could you post an example of a full, 3000 point army that represents your potential concern?

If the Skyrays "castle", that means no deep-field markerlights, if the Crisis are doubling to bring all their copious weapons to bear, it means, even on the jump-back, they're within assault range of all but the slowest enemies; doubling also means their firepower will be greatly reduced.

Here's a list I came up with... and, I gotta admit, to me, it's not that scary, and eleven activations, at least around here, is *not* popcorn... especially when four of them are fragile 3-unit formations, and going with 275 for the Skysweeps.


Sky-Crisis Tau Army - 3000 points

Crisis HQ
4 Battlesuits
Shas'O

Crisis 1 - (BTS Target)
4 Battlesuits
2 Crisis Suits
1 Shas'El

Crisis 2
4 Battlesuits

Crisis 3
4 Battlesuits

Crisis 4
4 Battlesuits

Crisis 5
4 Battlesuits

Skysweep Group 1
3 Skyrays

Skysweep Group 2
3 Skyrays

Skysweep Group 3
3 Skyrays

Skysweep Group 4
3 Skyrays

Recon Group
6 Tetras

Addendum - Lastly, to me, this *does* look like a kind of army the Tau would field, to assault a heavily defended enemy airfield or some other such target.




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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Quote: 

And that may just be true.

What I also see is the possibility of castle-ing the Skyrays so that all they are supposed to do is keep aircraft at bay. Then the multitude of Crisis formations maneuver to a flank, always passing their first order and having a good chance of passing a retain. A plethora of smallish crisis suit formations allows the Tau player to pour lots of formations to a single point.

Their whole objective is to pour fire into units, which they have copious amounts of, then jump out of harms way. The ability to move 50 cms after it’s all said and done for each formation provides an excellent ability to concentrate fire, then escape.

All of which throws the “synergisticâ€Â


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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:26 am 
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So this is the list I plan on testing:

3000 pts v6.2 Crisis Spam Test
Name Units
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
SC upgrade Shas'O
Crisis upgrade 2 x Crisis
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Crisis Cadre 4 x Crisis Suits
Skysweep Support Group 3 x Skyray

That's 11 activations and unless I've missed my guess, 42 MW shots alone with all formations except the Skysweep at Init 1+. I decided that if I'm going to gamble, I'll take a shot at only having 3 Skyrays on the table.

I know that the 10cm move isn't huge, but also keep in mind that it would be my intention to only get within 15cms so that I could fire the MWs long with all the other weapons. That means in the ideal scenario, they are 25cms away from pain. Add in terrain and who knows, what the retribution might be like. I'm just working this through in my head right now and it will gel more as I get to the table, so I'll just leave it at that.

That's why I think it needs to be tested. If you guys don't see it as an issue, that's fine. I'll know more after I get a chance to play the list.

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:36 am 
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Quote: 

RE: Piranha - We thought it should be FF6+ to be on par with similar units,


Done

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 Post subject: Clean Up Questions/Comments
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:37 am 
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Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 14 2009, 01:26 )

So this is the list I plan on testing:

3000 pts v6.2 Crisis Spam Test

Toss in 2+ 3/3 tetra/piranha formations for scouts and overwatch. Its silly not to mark stuff with this list you are in some cases accepting a 50% drop in firepower. It is simply hobbling yourself to not get some markerlights.

Hell, I'd still go for 1 firewarrior formation to sit on the blitz, pref with a markerlight on overwatch all game.

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