As always, one post, more than one reply!  Much more flavorful! ÂÂ
Morgan Vening:
Quote:
I suspect moving Scouts to support and increasing them back to 150 would limit their popcorniness.
Teleport will likely be restored. It's usable in circumstances where Deep Strike might not be, is one of the defining characteristics of Terminators, and could, after all, be done from facilities other than orbiting ships (I think some Titans carry teleporters, don't they?). Cost would, of course, be adjusted back up. ÂÂ
In regard to Vindicators, you misunderstand me.  I meant that even at 200 points, I still look at them and go..."But there're Land Speeders..." It's kind of sad. A fifty point Vindicator would make a dandy support option for a lot of formations, but I'd worry it was a little too tempting. ÂÂ
The problem is that it's not that Titans are undercosted (at least, I don't think it is...).  The problem has more to do with the rest of the Space Marine options - the Titans are more-or-less as good in a Guard list as for Marines, it's just that the Marine units are less valuable in comparision to Titans than Guard options.  The Baran Siegemasters list, IIRC, also has 25% allies, so this wouldn't be the first example of such.  And it does fit well with the independent nature of Space Marines.  Hopefully a combination of a little less ally and a few more marines for the price is enough.
Really, what the Space Marines need is a bit more long-ranged firepower (hopefully helped slightly by the Thudd Gun), and a bit more ability to kill huge massively armored targets (hopefully an ability provided by the Land Raider Terminus, which may get some adjustment). Another decent anti-Titan unit might be nice for the Marines, but the fluff doesn't exactly overflow with such options, and it's appropriate for the Marines to lack them.
I am, as always, open to argument. ÂÂ
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The_Real_Chris:
The Damocles is supposed to be a better command vehicle than the Prometheus - hence the arrangement I have.  Of course, this results in a ludicrously expensive vehicle that is incredibly vulnerable, but if we're going to be bothered by such things we might as well stop playing Space Marines altogether.  ;)
I was tempted to go the 'individual purchase' route with Rhinos, and may still.  The question is if garrisons need to be that much cheaper - even if you garrisoned an entire Battle Company, you'd only save about 50 points, wouldn't you?
Also, the Imperial Fists would be neat.
Vindicators, to me, feel like they're worth about 55 points each. Maybe 60. ÂÂ
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Jiridian:
It all sounds plausible enough...
Teleport will likely be added back in.  They just don't feel like Terminators without the option, and it's at least theoretically possible for it to happen in circumstances where drop-podding or Thunderhawk insertion would be a poor choice. ÂÂ
[quote]
You have done a good job with the pts in that the extra points gained by my cheaper Termies, Scouts, Tactical, Speeders is eaten up by the more expensive Thunderhawks.
That was the plan (though Scouts are likely going back up in price.  At 125 they seem a little too cheap - and dammit, we have Landspeeders and Dreadnoughts for cheap activation padding
). ÂÂ
Any suggestions or other comments? ÂÂ
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GlynG:
Simulated Knave.  Stimulated Knave would not be a good, family-friendly moniker.  Not at all. ÂÂ
The problem with Thunderfire Cannons is that they're semi-independent individual artillery pieces manned by a Techmarine.  Thudd Guns are crew serviced, and thus fit well as a Devastator upgrade.  Furthermore, they have existing models, whereas the Thunderfire is pretty much guaranteed to be done by fans, if at all (hell, the thing's only got medium popularity in 40K).  Plus, it's Thudd with
two ds.  How could anyone turn down that? ÂÂ
Hence: predates the Thunderfire, has a model, fits a little better with an existing unit. And goes Thudd.
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hello_dave:
Thank you.
The whole new world thing was more or less the plan.
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Honda:
A more accurate comparison would be the Commander whining about the enemy being able to destroy him when he insists on wandering up to their guns unsupported with Thunderhawks and Titans, surely...
Of course, since Marines in the fluff can and apparently do attempt that, often meeting with success, would he not be right to?
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Generally:
Pondering adding variant Whirlwind shells for a bit of diversity in what is a useful but short-on-character unit. Trying to figure out if I'm missing any marine units that would be logical to include. Also trying not to regret removing Drop Pods. Then again, there's an entire Space Marine list that assumes people are going to be Thunderhawking and Drop Podding in large quantities already.
Does anyone have any ideas for things that would make sense in the list or seem to be missing? Comments, concerns, sarcastic observations?
