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Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass

 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Quote: 

unfortunately the EpicUK group have long made their feelings clear about this forum (just read Matt Otter's post in this very thread, for example, to see a negative attitude expressed)


I'm sorry but I don't see any negativity in the post towards these Boards. Just going through my post:

Quote: 

And I suppose you’re talking from experience ... how many tournaments have you been to?


Okay it could of been worded a little better but it was a direct question to a comment made about tournaments bring out the worst in people ... I wanted to know how many tournaments that person has been to. This was so I could identify how much experience the guy has, of tournaments, to back up this statement. I’ve been to over 120 tournaments, in many different systems, in 3 different countries and I feel this guy does not have enough relevant experience to back this statement up.

Quote: 

I think 'The_Real_Chris' raised a good point; why should a base of Grots be able to claim an objective when a Thunderhawk / Vampire Raider can't ... THAT doesn't make any sense.


I then said TRC made a good point

Quote: 

Those people complaining about aircraft landing to contest objectives / they shall not pass ... have you ever thought about changing the way you play to deal with the threat??? Aircraft on the ground are the easiest things to kill; for example:

A vampire raider lands to contest an objective

All you have to do is move a formation within 15cm of the Vampire and place a blast marker; next get another formation to shoot at it ... 2 Blast Markers break it and, because it's within 15cm of an enemy (and cannot move) it is destroyed automatically. You don’t even have to roll any dice apart from activations.


I then asked people if they had changed the way they played to meet the threat AND gave a very good example to combat it ... I hardly think this is negative. Actually to me (thought I did write it) it sounds positive as it gives an explanation to deal with the threat.

Quote: 

Now this is just an example; I'm sure people on this board will tear this example to pieces saying "... what if you haven't got two formations spare..." "... What if they play this stunt after all my formations have activated..."

I would say simply, you've been out played by a better player


Again not negative at these boards (though I can see how people could read it incorrectly); if you haven't got the activations to deal with your opponents tactics, or your opponent has targeted your formations that could potentially disallow him from landing a flyer to contest an objective then your opponent should be congratulated on playing better than you, and quite rightly deserved to win. Saying that the tactic is cheesy or shouldn't be allowed, doesn't mean that your opponent doesn't deserve the right to win the game and be congratulated.

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Quote: 

The problem with the taccoms approach to list design is its length (unavoidable due to the very low level of players left on the internet), the ability to be sidetracked and finally and most importantly the fact a lot of vocal posters here are not regular 'competitive' tourney players. There can be very long and lengthy discussions with people who haven't played certain aspects of the game as thoroughly as others (air used to be a good example) and it can lead to oddities being promoted or defended in lists.


You've hit the nail on the head here TRC ... just look at this threat ... waaay of topic and four pages long.

Open forums, for me personally, are a very very difficult way of progressing army list development.

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:24 )

That's one part of what you've said, sure, but by seperating paragraphs in your post, you seperate the labelling too. At least that's how I read it... *shrug*

Hmm, I've re-read my post and I can still see only one message - what else have I said?

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:42 pm 
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Quote: 

I can see how people could read it incorrectly


They certainly could, and those words are not alone.

To draw a good example, what was it all about when you were denying that you were 'Braveheart' on the forums, as well as 'OtterMatt'?
Obviously just a joke, but without other indicators it was, at the least, confusion-raising, and is emblematic of how limited the Internet is as a form of communication, and how easy jokes, or incautious words, can look like snide sniping.

Quote: 

You've hit the nail on the head here TRC ... just look at this threat ... waaay of topic and four pages long.

The topic at hand was admittedly settled in the first few posts, and since then we've been having a free-flowing (and, I think beneficial) discussion.

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Quote: (alansa @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:41 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:24 )

That's one part of what you've said, sure, but by seperating paragraphs in your post, you seperate the labelling too. At least that's how I read it... *shrug*

Hmm, I've re-read my post and I can still see only one message - what else have I said?

I read the seperated sentances (independent paragraphs) on their own, instead of grouping the meaning of the entire post into one message, and inferred potentially insulting connotations in that manner, if you don't see those possible connotations then you don't see them *shrug*.

I believe that it is this kind of daft thing that has lead the two mature and sensible communities to this juncture, where insults are assumed and railed against any time the discussion touches on tournaments.



====


Now if only Man of Kent hadn't felt the need to label tournaments in the first place, this'd be a one page thread.  :grin:




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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:42 )

To draw a good example, what was it all about when you were denying that you were 'Braveheart' on the forums, as well as 'OtterMatt'?

To be perfectly honest there is a very important reason why I have two accounts, one:

1) Is for my own personnel opinion (Braveheart). I wanted so much to enter debates with my own thoughts and ideas on this forum.

2) Is for offical EPIC UK business; i.e announcement of tournaments, entries etc.

However it has been very difficult for people to try to seperate the two (curse of being a member of a group I suppose) so therefore that's why I don't post very often (or in any of the army list development sections) in fear that people would read it as 'EPIC UK' speaking.

Abit sad really but never mind ... I did think of setting up a new account to view MY opinions so watch this space

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:46 )

Quote: (alansa @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:41 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:24 )

That's one part of what you've said, sure, but by seperating paragraphs in your post, you seperate the labelling too. At least that's how I read it... *shrug*

Hmm, I've re-read my post and I can still see only one message - what else have I said?

I read the seperated sentances (independent paragraphs) on their own, instead of grouping the meaning of the entire post into one message, and inferred potentially insulting connotations in that manner, if you don't see those possible connotations then you don't see them *shrug*.

I believe that it is this kind of daft thing that has lead the two mature and sensible communities to this juncture, where insults are assumed and railed against any time the discussion touches on tournaments.



====


Now if only Man of Kent hadn't felt the need to label tournaments in the first place, this'd be a one page thread.  :grin:

what connotations?

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:50 pm 
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Quote: 

what connotations?

I've already stated them to the best of my abilities. It is beyond my abilities to state them in a clearer manner.

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Guys ... put away the claws.

We've made a few mods to sand off the rough edges of the "game-iest" parts of the rules as a compromise.  You can't please everyone but I think the current rule hits the middle ground between abstraction/playability and simulation as well as can be accomplished.

There are aspects of a tournament scene that can bring out poor sportsmanship but it doesn't have to be that way and, in my experience, usually isn't.  In fact, not once have I been to an Epic tourney that I thought had a low level of sportsmanship.

I don't know why anyone begrudges the EpicUK guys their thing.  Sure, I would like it if they had decided to be more open and inclusive, but it's not like there isn't legitimate criticism of the more open style here on TacComms.  In the end it's their thing.  Let them make the trade-offs they prefer.  More efficiency for less diversity is a perfectly valid choice, even if you (the generic you) have different preferences.

Last time I checked, there has been a huge amount of cross-pollination and each of EpicUK and the TacComms/NetEA processes have benefited greatly from the other.  I still think that more cooperation would make for an even better product but overall the net result has been positive all the way around.

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:04 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:50 )

Quote: 

what connotations?

I've already stated them to the best of my abilities. It is beyond my abilities to state them in a clearer manner.

where?

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Quote: (alansa @ Oct. 27 2009, 13:04 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 27 2009, 12:50 )

Quote: 

what connotations?

I've already stated them to the best of my abilities. It is beyond my abilities to state them in a clearer manner.

where?

Several times in my posts replying to you, including in ones you quote in your posts. I lack the ability to elucidate my thoughts further, and there's no point in me reiterating my thoughts if they will only repeat what I have already said.

Quote: 

Guys ... put away the claws.

Yes Sir.  :grin:




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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:18 pm 
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I'll leave it at that. Claws withdrawn

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 Post subject: Aircraft/They Shall Not Pass
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:45 pm 
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The Eagle has landed... and gone to the pub.

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