Spartan = conversion, Rhinos or Razorbacks (I use Rhinos)
Hearthguard formations = Hearthguard stands, Exo-Armour stands or Chaos Squat stands
Engineer's Battlecar = Berserker Battlecar
Pilum Battlecar = Bomb Battlecar
Roadmaker Battlecar = Mortar Battlecar

Merchant Prince, Legate Marshal and Trade Factor = conversion and paint scheme, mix of Hearthguard, infantry, Standard Bearers and/or Exo-Armour.
Iron Hawk = Gyrocopter with a special paint job to match it's Colossus.

I think everthing else is the existing names of the Citadel Minitures or Forge World (spacecraft).

PS - Thanks for the support on the answer Arkturas! i edited down my post as you aswered better  

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

ePilgrim and I are working on a PDF that will have pictures for the Demiurg and the Thurgrimm's list.  A lot of people get a hold of the Squat minis and they have NO idea what they are, so it isn't just the veterans who are lost on the Demiurg list.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Actually yes you can break the stompas like I did.  6 BP = +1 Template and +1 bonus blast marker so before any dice were rolled there were 2 blast markers and then there were the 6 more for the disrupt hits totalling 8 and then with the 2 stompas that died that made for 8 stompas in formation and 8 blast markers which = broken formation

I have been looking over this list and have a few concerns that I will detail below. If this is going to print stage at some time in the future, I think some of the below may cause some concerns:


Why do really loud bikes have the scout ability? It does not make sense.




It is a balloon. Should not this count as "always popped up", rather than having the same maneuverability as any other skimmer? Once again, to me, it does not make sense




How does the Leviathan move faster than a Baneblade?




I have trouble understanding how these items are not counted as mounted. Does one envision that they can freely move through difficult terrain at optimal speeds?




Surely this should be walker rather than expect no roll what-so-ever for Dangerous terrain... So a forest will not stop this thing? It seems too good a skill and not representative of what it should be.




So am I to understand that a Heavy Bolter cannot take one of these down? Surely you should consider these as Light Vehicles rather than AV?

Ah, quite right. I counted wrong. Well done regardless, That is something I've not been able to do with Disrupt. Thanks for illustrating that it is possible.  

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

no replies to my observations?

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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First, Thank you for looking at the list. With regards to your concerns/questions...

I think you must have misread 2.1.12; additionally I cannot find any reference to the noise problem you have attributed to this unit in the army list.

Actually it is a small model in a science-fiction-fantasy wargame and it is classified as a skimmer. If we were discussing a historical simulation you would have an excellent point.

A fair question; after a number of years actually playing with the unit at 15cm it was noted by every opponent as "not a concern" because it never got close enough for the troops to be a threat, even when it was on March for several turns, therefore by adding 5cm it becomes playable and "fits" even if it seems illogical.

I don't know what you envision, but what these are profiled as are portable, collapsable and moveable.

The original profile comes from page 169 of the rulebook. The only modification was the move was changed to 20cm as noted in the Leviathan response. If it matter at all no one has ever argued this in a game when the Gorgons were used.

You do understand correct! How is The Iron Eagle different than a Vulture or Valkyrie? Surely you jest!

sorry for any delays in responding, my instant gratification instinct is almost totally non-exisitant  

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

Wow, sarcastic much?

You have chosen to specifically not really answer the questions, but rather play with words and 'waste of time' examples.

How many playtests are we talking about and with what groups? If these are the responses that previous queries have recieved, no wonder people have stopped writing in.

If you cannot take the questions seriously, then good luck with your list. Sorry I gave a damn.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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Previous Chaos Squats

Sarcastic?...agreed.

"Playing with words", "wasting your time" and not specifically answering your questions?...I don't think you liked the answers or my choice of tone, however, I did address each of your questions and in six out of 7 I based each response on the rules or an existing profile.

By quickly dismissing my responses and changing the topic to a hyperbolic and pedantic response regarding playtest feedback and the treatment other people may have received you degrade the validity of your questions and your retort.

Hopefully you noted that I did give you credit for questioning the unusual speed of the Leviathan profile, yet you did nothing to question my somewhat flimsy answer to the design choice of the support weapons, nor did you choose to argue the rulebook answers I provided.

If you are that caught up in the rectitude of your own questions, so much so that you cannot engage in discussion, how can I consider if in fact you do (or did) give a damn?


PS Since your follow-up was in essence a separate thread question I suggest you search the various posts and find out for yourself what has transpired over the years since this list was introduced. I believe you will find there is quite a lot of discussion. Some was serious, some unkind; most of it constructive. There is even some evidence of playtesting.

Sadly, for a number of reasons, mostly related to GW Studio choices the Squats are primarily a footnote in the WH40K universe and only in Epic do they exist as a coherent playable concept. The Demiurg are one step removed as GW has declined to develop them at all. I have attempted to do so in the face of limited and amused interest as well as dismissive and rude accusations from devout self-appointed GW canon archivists. Even in context of a generally low level of interest the list as much as you may disapprove of some of the concepts is playable and has been so for many years.

If you choose to discuss this topic or your previous questions I will respond. If not, then enjoy those parts of Epic that suit your gaming.

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

I too am surprised at the speed 20cm WE. In testing the CI for guard it was found 15cm was too fast and if fact would be better at 10cm. This was because one march and it was at the half way line and the objectives you had placed there.

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Fair point and I was not overjoyed at adding the speed either, however due to low DC and discussions with Jaldon on the Squat list we found that the Leviathan was a potential "death-ride" and rarely got where it needed to go.

What is the current profile of the Capital Imperialis? There may be some common ground to re-examine this, although I am loathe to add DC to any of the MCF profiles...still worth pondering.

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Squat/Demiurg Army Co-Champion (in cahoots with Jaldon)

Frogbear I believe has just recently added to his litter, and as such might be a bit testy due to a lack of sleep.

Despite the fact that I think his tone sucks, the Leviathan speed question is a legitimate one, and something that I believe I did bring up in the past in a general sense (that is, that that some of the Squat units seem too fast).

With that said, the list is well balanced.  I can say that from actually playing against it rather than theoryhammering it.

The point about scouts making too much noise... I don't believe this has been a requisite for ANY Epic units.  Look at Stormboyz: They aren't exactly the library types.  How about Space Marine Scouts falling out of the sky in a giant Deathwind pod?  Once again, stealth does not have to equate with scout.

Iron Eagles.  Yup, the Valkyrie / Vulture argument pretty much takes care of that.

Gorgon.  Frogbear actually agrees with me on this.  I felt that the walker ability should be used (not for the same reasons as he used but) because it eliminates a special rule.  A 1/36 chance is very close to zero and almost any chance to get rid of special rules should be considered.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.