I often don't use the rule, if it's available, even to the extent that it'll lose me the game... it's just funny to make Zombocom annoyed from time to time.  

In a tournament I wouldn't pull my punches like that I guess (not that Marines are my typical tournament army, mind you).

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That's the reason I hate going to Tourney's right there. It brings out the worst in people.

It brings out 'the most competative' in people, that doesn't nessesarily equate to 'the worst', for some gamers.

Mind you, what with Epic's ruleset being so well written, the extent of douchery possible is orders of magnitude smaller than that possible in games of Warhammer/Warhammer 40,000.

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Ah but where does it stop?

A Landing Craft? Massive, bigger than the smallest tian. Surely that should capture?
All the way down to a stand of gretchin. Why should they do anything to an objective?

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Hey no picking on the Gretchins, they have got a few obj for me, against WE.

And I suppose you’re talking from experience ... how many tournaments have you been to?

I think 'The_Real_Chris' raised a good point; why should a base of Grots be able to claim an objective when a Thunderhawk / Vampire Raider can't ... THAT doesn't make any sense.

Those people complaining about aircraft landing to contest objectives / they shall not pass ... have you ever thought about changing the way you play to deal with the threat??? Aircraft on the ground are the easiest things to kill; for example:

A vampire raider lands to contest an objective

All you have to do is move a formation within 15cm of the Vampire and place a blast marker; next get another formation to shoot at it ... 2 Blast Markers break it and, because it's within 15cm of an enemy (and cannot move) it is destroyed automatically. You don’t even have to roll any dice apart from activations.

Now this is just an example; I'm sure people on this board will tear this example to pieces saying "... what if you haven't got two formations spare..." "... What if they play this stunt after all my formations have activated..."

I would say simply, you've been out played by a better player

Thank you

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As I've already noted, many (most, even, in some areas/gaming systems) players don't enjoy that kind of highly competative experience... it's not that these players can't 'step up' and play at tournament level (and that they are therefore 'inferior' at playing the Epic tabletop wargame), it's that they simply don't enjoy that style of gaming.

You (Matt) have said before that you don't change your playstyle between when you go to tournaments and when you play elsewhere... well, many do have to change their playstyle when they go to tournaments, and regardless of how good or bad they are at pushing toy soldiers around the table, they (not myself, I don't hesitate to add, as despite the impressions I've given off from time to time I've generally enjoyed the hell out of the 3 Epic tournaments I've been to, far moreso than the 3 Warhammer Fantasy tournaments I've attended) can find the highly competative atmosphere at tournaments kinda... annoying.


On the other hand, exclusively casual gamers can end up being snooty towards the guys they see treating tabletop wargaming like a sport, and end up just as annoying in their own way...

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I can safely say that the people in our gaming groups (such as Blish) have won many tournaments in many gaming systems (not just Epic) over the years. Actually Blish used to be unbeaten at the old epic - I cannot remember anyone actually beating him and we were in a gaming club that at one time had over 100 members.

Hence, I can safely say that it is the enjoyment that we look for. If we want to win or piss someone off, I am sure that many of us are happy to oblige. But what a waste of time that would be.

Outplayed? I can only laugh.  

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Matt O is right. I look at it this way - aircraft are a kind of ace card. Indeed epic itself, because of it's alternating turns system, is like a game of cards. But you have to play your cards at the right time

Play a card too early and it achieves little, or nothing, or worse. Play it just at the right time and you'll get the most out of that card's properties.

I LOVE landers of all kinds in epic. Their very abilities make a game much more unpredicatable and bring incredible tension to the game: a similar effect as to queens in chess. You know the enemy lander is out there, so you organise and fight such that you can neutralise it's abilities.

I never even had a problem with old rules with landers taking, and not just contesting, objectives, on the turn they land. As noted, unless played at exactly the right time, they won't grab the objective anyway. Ok, perhaps that ability was a little too heavy, but contesting certainly isn't.

Honestly, I don't see it as gamey or WAAC, makes for a bad experience or unrealistic. I see it as an exiting part of the game.

One note though, I do believe that a lander, of whatever stripe, is a much better choice than any bomber. Are bombers generally too expensive?

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That or their stats are simply kinda lame, ie: Marauders.

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for me you'd have to seriously up the stats of a maruader to make it worth one lander.

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In the Death Korps list we used the larger Forgeworld model for the Marauder, so it's a 2DC War Engine which drops 3BP, has two heavy bolter AA5+ 15cm defensive attacks, as well as a twin lascannon on the nose... one unit in a formation for 150pts.

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Ah interesting, I'd noticed the greater BP and it being bought singly, but missed the other changes. I'm curious to know how you find it's performed at these stats (and also why you have introduced the stats in your Krieg list but not in your Ad-mech lists) but possibly this isn't the thread to discuss it.

Well I'm not quite sure how many Tournaments, I have been too tbh. Over the last 5 years or so not many if any, but before that would have been at least 4 to 9 a year each year for about 12 years. In that time I was also going to a club every week. At his club where lots of members and I mean about 80 to 100, now try to get that many people to a tournament every week for maybe 6 to 10years.

So I guess the above is my exp.

As far as Flyers such as Thunderhawk / Vampire Raiders taking obj on the turn they land, yea I don't like and would not do that. Its a very easy way to stop someone getting a vital objective.

Funny enough I have figured out how to play over this period of time and as I have said I have chosen not to play that way. (I have nothing against people who need to play like that in order to try to beat me.)

Not sure if there are too many times I have been outplayed.