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Hive Fleet Creature Composition

 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Quote: (Mephiston @ Oct. 23 2009, 12:02 )

I'm going to show my fluff ignorance here, but is there any 'evidence' that the 'nids have a higher intelligence directing them or are they truly just moving through the universe doing what they have to too survive?

If its the latter then I see no reason why inter fleet comm's would exist unless the two fleets came into a range were one or the other conciousness would take over, effectively absorbing the weaker hive mind.

One Hive Fleet tendril has been tracked avoiding a Dyson Sphere speculated to contain a Necron C'tan. This could be interpreted as the fleet intentionally avoiding contact with an enemy it knows to be too powerful to attack (Ie: Showing fear)... or it could just be instinct because there's nothing there worth eating.

On a battlefield level, Tyranids are known to evolve 'actively' to meet challenges, for example Hive Tyrants and Warriors will only evolve to have wings if battlefield circumstances on a particular planet require them to have wings in order to be most effective (such as lots of tall cliffs or fences). One could say that this too is evidence of a guiding intelligence.


Whatever the case, it is clear that different Hive Fleets view each other as competitors, as we have 'records' of different Hive Fleets coming into contact and then engaging in cannibalism. This clearly would be unnessesary if one Hive Mind controlled both fleets.




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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 23 2009, 12:25 )

Whatever the case, it is clear that different Hive Fleets view each other as competitors, as we have 'records' of different Hive Fleets coming into contact and then engaging in cannibalism. This clearly would be unnessesary if one Hive Mind controlled both fleets.

Where is this "cannibalism" mentioned or is it only when a chunk has been "cut off"?

Xenology makes mention of "an inexplicable synchronicity of absorbed qualities in entirely separate hive fleets... separated from the first by light years", indicating a *high* level of interstellar/fleet communication.

While I always enjoy discussions of "flavour", all our discussion here is just fan-speculation based on the various scraps of fluff from the books; there is no "real/true" way the Tyranids operate because they're imaginary.  Let's not get too entrenched in our make-believe positions and focus more on making a playable army.




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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:02 pm 
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There is a reference to Hive Fleets fighting each other in Codex Tyranids IIRC. I'll look up the page later.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 23 2009, 12:19 )

Quote: (arkturas @ Oct. 23 2009, 11:31 )

Lets ignore models for the moment.

How do you define which creatures are common and which are new species created in this galaxy?

Very often the background states that a creature was only seen after the Hive Fleets had spent some time in this galaxy, and in some cases even speculates a genetic link (Biovores from Ork DNA, Tyrant Guard from Marine DNA, etc).

It isn't as easy as that though is it.

I prefer the forward looking theory, that the next fleet has all the creatures of the previous fleet.

From what I gather from comments in this thread there are other ideas covering communication between fleets.
1) There is long distance communication meaning active fleets like Kraken splinters may have access to Leviathan creatures and vice versa.
2) There isn't long range communication meaning Leviathan would not have access to creatures like Biovores and others that are evolved in this galaxy in a specific fleet and vice versa.

Having no specific Kraken evolved creatures in Leviathan would be a problem from a list perspective and something I'm not in favour of.

Cannibalistic fleets is current tyranid codex p16, bottom right of Structure and Analysis pages.


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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Cannibalistic fleets explains the sharing of genotypes / mutations, incidentally...

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Quoted from the internet

Quote: 

Noted Imperial scholars believe that the only possible chance the Imperium stands against the arrival of this force includes giving a Lasgun to everyone that has hands and hoping for the best. They have been expected to arrive on Terra's doorstep any day now for years, being stalled by a force even more malicious then they are: GW's reluctance to move the story forward.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:36 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Oct. 24 2009, 20:29 )

Quoted from the internet

Quote: 

Noted Imperial scholars believe that the only possible chance the Imperium stands against the arrival of this force includes giving a Lasgun to everyone that has hands and hoping for the best. They have been expected to arrive on Terra's doorstep any day now for years, being stalled by a force even more malicious then they are: GW's reluctance to move the story forward.

Well that's a bunch of disenchanted ex-fanboi whining.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:22 am 
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Meh, it's my kind of cynical humour- the writer still realises it's just a game!


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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:51 am 
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Quote: 

Noted Imperial scholars believe that the only possible chance the Imperium stands against the arrival of this force includes giving a Lasgun to everyone that has hands and hoping for the best.


Come on, who can not love the image of the High Lord of Terra giving a collective shrug, saying we've tried everything else and signing off ont he lasgun order? :)

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:38 pm 
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As of the release of a new Codex Tyranids, the list of which fleet each creature appears in first is below. I can update the first post with the full updated information and quote location if someone wants it. New creatures added are bolded.

Fleet dates
Behemoth – 745.M41
Naga – 801.M41
Gorgon – 899.M41
Kraken – 990.M41, 992.M41 or 993.M41
Jormungandr – 995.M41
Leviathan - 997.M41

Behemoth
Hive Tyrant, Swarmlord, Tyrant Guard, Genestealer, Ymgarl Genestealers, Carnifex (Screamer variant), Old One Eye, Hormagaunt, Harpy, Gargoyle, Lictor, Warrior, Termagant, Ripper Swarm, Mycetic Spores, Ravener, Biovore, Mawloc and Trygon

Naga
Zoanthrope, Doom of Malan'tai, Venomthrope

Gorgon
Dominatrix, Tervigon

Kraken
Harridan, Hierophant, Scythed Hierodule, Barbed Hierodule, Tyrannofex, Shrikes, Meiotic Spores, Malanthrope, Parasite of Mortrex

Jormungandr
Unknown Trygon Bio-Titan, Reaver Class

Leviathan
Deathleaper

Unknown hive fleet introduction - I'd put them all appear by Kraken
Broodlord, Carnifex (Shooter variants), Pyrovore, Hive Guard, Hydraphant (Epic construct based on models), Vituperator (Epic construct)

Assault Spawn
The Assault Spawn are all in the original Hive War supplement (BlackLegion) so could be Behemoth and would definitely be Kraken. Due to virtually no new information and only passing mention in Codex Tyranids and Apocalypse they could be legacy creatures that don't appear in recent fleets like Leviathan. Not mentioned at all in 5th Ed codex.

Haruspex, Malefactor, Dactylis, Exocrine





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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Quote: (arkturas @ Jan. 26 2010, 16:38 )

Exocrine

Well, the Tyrannofex is, essentially, the new name for the Exocrine... it's a big "Gun Bug"... and, in my eye, the picture in the Codex looks *terrible*.  *laugh*

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:54 pm 
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From the weapons it can take the Tyrannofex is both the Exocrine and the Malefactor. Not surprisingly it looks something like E&Cs Carnifex based Exocrine conversion (yes i have the Codex now).




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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Oct. 23 2009, 12:25 )

On a battlefield level, Tyranids are known to evolve 'actively' to meet challenges, for example Hive Tyrants and Warriors will only evolve to have wings if battlefield circumstances on a particular planet require them to have wings in order to be most effective (such as lots of tall cliffs or fences).

I giggled at this.  :laugh:  :laugh:

I can imagine a tyrnat coming across a wooden fence and getting stuck, so the next one was given wings.

Silly hive mind not realsing that the gate was open.

On topic.  Exocrine are also mentioned in xenology, under megafauna. as well as Trygons, Hierodules and Hierophants, during the first tyrannic wars.

This was by a Space Marine sergeant.

It was also the first time that "shoot the biog ones" didn't work as intended.  silly prey things thinking that all big creatures are synpase.

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Quote: (ragnarok @ Jan. 26 2010, 19:21 )

I giggled at this.  :laugh:  :laugh:

I can imagine a tyrnat coming across a wooden fence and getting stuck, so the next one was given wings.

While it does seem ridiculous when put that way, I think the "world with fences" is supposed to be a reference to the Anphelion Project, where captured Tyranids were kept in "power fenced" preserves, Jurassic Park-style.

And don't forget chain-link fences!  You can see through 'em, but you can't walk through 'em!  Cunning prey-creatures!   :laugh:

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 Post subject: Hive Fleet Creature Composition
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Even more confusing is bulletproof glass. You can't see it but somehow you can`t walk through it too  :grin:

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