Well I'm really sorry that I didn't reply to your post specifically, I try to do that for as many posts as I can, because that's one of the duties of an ERC-appointed list developer.

So it's a failing of mine that I missed your post early on, and then didn't re-read the whole thread and address your concerns later on.

I've just gone back and found that it was right at the end of a page, likely TRC posted, the page ticked over to page 2, and I missed your post, sorry.


I too would far prefer officially-developed armies with officially released models... but we're not going to get that unfortunately.


Noted.

What would you say is your win/loss ratio over the games you've played, both before and after the God Machines rule was introduced?


That was actually one of the specific aims of the rule, as a particular list style that invovlved multiple minimum-cost Reaver Titans was shown to be overpowered, if used in a certain aggressive style.

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Or everyone has had there say and repeating would be pointless

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OK so leaving aside the concern that there is still a list style that can reliably force a points-based minor win if you don't care about enjoying the game, it's been proposed a few times that the God Machines rule could be changed to 'apply a BM to all AMTL formations in LOS to a Battle Titan that is destroyed', which would return the BTS rule to normal, but would again work to discourage overly-aggressive play.

Would this implementation be preferred?

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Why would it be restricted to LOS?

Surely if a Battle Titan falls, the entire force would know about it (must have a sensor link or something). Otherwise you could end up with discussions about what units are in LOS.

KISS.

If the normal BTS rule is to be used, I see the entire army getting a BM (after a Battle Titan dies) as a usful balance. Might also help discourage too many single Warhounds?

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The Eldar Avatar uses a very similar mechanic, and does use LOS...

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Yeah but he's only 4 foot tall (says so in my infantrymans guide to 40k).

Nah its not that Ben it more everyone had their say, you picked a direction now it will be  a while before people get back round to the army list to have another go with it. All the old arguments have been done and even if they were valid they may not be so now since you changed a few things. So it will just take a while for people to get round to playing games and altering them

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Well I try to make sure my 'developer ears' are always open.  

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Though I note somebody has already said something about 25 point weapons and turbolasers

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

*shakes fist at Turbolasers*

"Damn you, Turbolasers!"


Y'know they'd be perfectly balanced at 25pts if they were still range 45cm.  

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I'm guessing you mean any titan, Onyx? If it's just a on the death of a battle titan I don't think the rule will have much effect. At most you will see two or three BM added by it over the course of the game. However if you make it any titan's death causes a BM, either within LOS or army wide, it cuts back on lone warhounds since they are pretty easy to drop and each one causes a BM army wide. Still good, but take too many and the BM's will pile up.


Short of editing the TLD to something else stat wise, I think this could be fixed by simplifying the free weapons rule to give all battle titans two free weapons and upping the cost of the reaver hull by 25 points. It gives about the same effect to cost as the current weapon restriction rule but mostly keeps the free weapons from competing with the TLD.

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-Vaaish

Wouldn't that just needlessly penalise weapon combinations that didn't include two free weapons? Making the cheapest configurations the only ones worth taking?

The following are all Reavers I either have or am planning to put together:
Rocket Launcher/Turbolaser Destructor/Turbolaser Destructor (Standard configuration)
Rocket Launcher/Gatling Blaster/Volcano Cannon (Same as FW's Epic Reaver)
Rocket Launcher/Gatling Blaster/Laser Blaster (Same as FW's 40k Reaver)
Carapace Landing Pad/Quake Cannon/Quake Cannon
Rocket Launcher/Close-combat Weapon/Laser Blaster

All of these would go up 25 points under such a system. At least most of those increases would be unnecessary.

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I know, I killed one on the weekend... Wooohooo!

Vaaish - I mean on the death of a Battle Titan, all allied formations take a BM each. That has got to be a bad thing across the whole army. It's not something I've thought a lot about, just an idea that popped into my head.

My comment about lone Warhounds was in regard to them being quite easy to break (especially if a Reaver or 2 gets killed quickly), not about a Warhound death causing BM's across the army.

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Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

I agree that it's a bad thing to have happen to you army wide. I don't know that limiting it to the death of battle titans would be enough of an effect though. I'd been thinking along the same lines though making it any titan dying and the BM goes to units within LOS. My reasoning was that if it were limited to only battle titans armies that struggle with taking them down like Marines wouldn't be able to take advantage of it and armies that take the larger titans down more easily would get a larger boost. IIRC in the Taros campaign, the Titan legions pulled back after the loss of a single Warhound which to me translates into any titan class going down has a serious morale impact on the TL force.

By making the death of any titan, scout or battle, give the entire army or those within LOS a BM, armies like marines can focus on warhounds to whittle down the rest of the army and keep them from holding objectives enabling them a shot at winning without having to take down the battle titans head on. It also promotes fewer warhounds and more conservative use of them since each one that goes down gives a BM to everyone else.




It is possible, but I don't think the price increase is so much that more expensive configurations aren't worth taking anymore. All it does is keep the TLD from mostly being a no brainer after the first free weapon is chosen and perhaps make points a bit tighter for upgrades. Whatever is done, the TLD is too good of a choice once the free weapons become 25 points.

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-Vaaish

I would prefer that to the way it's currently written. I might be okay with all units, regardless of LOS.

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That´s a Joke, right?

Getting BTS MUCH easier should exchange for getting ONE BM?

What reward for killing a Battletitan is ONE BM? They just shrug it of before i can take advantage of it... i think if the rule is changed to this you could just make non rule for it at all... one BM... seriouse.. how many Battle titans am i suposed to kill each round to have a real benefit out of this rule?  

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