In the 40k rules, yes.

In the background text however they are just described as:

Tyrant Guard are living shields whose resistance to injury is amazing. Blind and ultimately controlled by the Synapse Creatures they protect, these half-sentient but ferocious creatures appear to have been bio-engineered specifically to counter anti-Tyranid doctrine.

Nothing about only protecting Hive Tyrants, just that they protect synapse creatures.

If there needs to be a "bodyguard" genus it really should be Tyrant Guard rather than Raveners.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

infiltrator more represents the fact that they are one of the quickest 'nid genuses on land, hence they have the beasts rule in 40k which is basically identical to epic's infiltrator (double movement when charging).

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The infiltrator rule was added to Raveners way back in the v6 series to represent both the 40k "beasts" and "deepstrike" aspects of the unit.

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I too assumed the Infiltrators rule represented the fact Raveners can move fast over ground, even for Nids.

It represents *both* things; the increased movement to represent "speed" and the ignoring zones of control to represent local "tunneling" would make the most sense to me.

There are many abstractions in EPIC, which is good, as the "same" rule can be used to represent "different" things.

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I agree on the Zone of Control thing (you need to be more than just fast to sneak passed the enemy), but it falls down with Hormagaunts, or Rough Riders, etc. They're just fast.

I guess Infiltrator can represent both abilities, and I agree that Epic is abstract enough to use it's existing Special Unit/Abilities page for a variety of new units and concepts.

It doesn't make any difference in game, but I didn't consider tunnelling to be a rapid thing- I considered it slightly strategic (like the Tunnellers rule), and assumed the Raveners babysitting Warriors where on the surface, their great cross-country speed being represented by a double charge move distance of Infiltrator.

I think you're wrong on that, I'm not that up on the detail of the W40k tyranid rules but I always had the imppression they were specidically Hive Tyrant bodyguard. It's not always a totally reliable source, but wikipedia defines them as:
On that basis I think they should only come with Hive Tyrants, perhaps as seperate stands but probably just a few of them on a base with the Hive Tyrant (I know it's an AV but just count it all as one).

The point being Tyrants aren't really a problem. Tyrant Guard would be borderline AV and are completely unknown for guarding warriors (a loophole allowed them to guard Carnifexes at one point in 40k). The reason Raveners are liked is they are spawnable LV, mixed Inf and AV work just as well but it's harder to spawn the AV's if they get taken out. Then the only other spawnable LV is the biovore which is much worse, the Zoanthrope and extra warriors don't come back.

Which suggests a question. Is spawning perceived to be better than it actually is? 1-2 Raveners spawned per Synapse group per game isn't great. It is better than buying extra Warriors and Zoanthropes though (Effectively 6 Raveners for 125pts put Raveners at ~20pts per stand, Zoanthropes at 35pts and extra warriors at 50pts are more expensive).

In my readings, it really seems to be.  

People talk about the hordes of Carnifex brought back and the game-breaking return of Hierodules and such, but I think those just stand out in people's minds despite their statistical rarity, *especially* if it wrecked the opponent's plans or won a game.

But for the most part, in the heat of battle, you've got a 66% chance of *not* spawning an AV back.  Sure, you can have some kind of "Blitz guard" sitting there getting bigger and bigger, but that's only if the enemy leaves you alone, and, to me, that seems *appropriately* Tyranidy.

In my games, spawning has been a light "boost" and not "game-breaking" in any fashion.  And it's *not* always the right choice to spawn back big things, sometimes you need the "bulk" of three Gaunts.


And in regard to "Tyrant Guard", they already exist in the list: 1) As the Hive Tyrant's tough stats, 2) "Counts as" using Carnifex.  Or were people seriously asking for an *additional* "Look out sir!"-type of special rule for them?

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The fact is that currently Raveners are acting as bodyguards to the Warriors. If such a bodyguard is wanted, tyrant guard make much more sense than Raveners.

No "look out sir" rule would be needed, LV status with a decent save would do the job.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

So can't you just "counts as" your Raveners?  Why is *another* unit needed then?

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I'll be somewhat blunt here. Do one of the following

1) Shift Raveners to Uncommon at 9.2.1 points and stats. Bodyguarding duty is still available and I don't think 4 Ravs to 3 Fex is a bad comparison. The Ravs are a better fit, are faster and easier to spawn but obviously the fexes are harder to kill and Assault spawn are better again but cost more.

2) Keep Ravs in a Sub swarm only at 9.2.1 stats but a reduced cost to represent the lack of spawning potential.

Because Tyrant guards should be slow and well armoured, not lightly armoured and fast. Also because Raveners simply shouldn't have the option to be bodyguards.

One last throw of the dice with regards to LV warriors and raveners; note that in 40k they both have T4 and 2W, exactly the same as Ork Nobs, who are very much infantry in Epic.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

So, like a Carnifex then...  



Warriors and Raveners are also much *bigger* than Ork Nobs... at least non-Mega-Armoured ones.

Again, Warriors as LVs is *not* set in stone.  Try some experiments with them as Inf again and Raveners as LV or not even a Common Brood, and get back to me.

That's part of the process of development, folks!

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