Well I don't think it should have Scout, and without that ability 30cm AA is very different to 60cm AA...

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Better?

Space Marine Land Speeder Tempest
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Light Vehicle 35cm 4+ 6+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Assault Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+ -
Twin Tempest Missile Launcher 30cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+

Notes: Skimmer.

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In Soulstorm. And it's aircraft there. While the regular Land Speeder is, well, a land speeder. Go figure.

Well but in DoW all aircrafts behave as Land Speeders. Thats hovering on the spot and shooting more or less effectively at others  

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I forgot to say no scout in the initial post (that would have saved a bunch of posts).

If its AA5+ it should be an arc weapon. AA6+ is fine with me as it has limited AA coverage as a squadron of 4 (with no scout as I curse myself for not making clear) for point defence efectively, if you chase aircraft you now hit on 7's which I think is fine. Hunters would be table denial/moving flak, these chaps a flak formation alternative.

Of course for the 1/2 lists where hunters are scarce they would be essential.

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An arc weapon just isn't going to work. This is a LV (possible AV) and there are multiple in the formation, which could all be pointing in different directions. Working out which arcs a plane flew through is just an unneccessary headache.

Make it a smaller formation or drop to AA6+ rather than bothering with arcs. If a vindicator doesn't have an arc why should a 35cm speed skimmer? Surely it can turn around a lot faster?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

First, I'm not huge on the more recent 40K background info, but as I recall the Tempest is not in wide circulation.  It was developed by the White Scars and is still primarily them and their successors.  I realize the IA article included stats for Ravenwing versions (iirc), but it would definitely be weird to have them in the Ravenwing but not have them in the White Scars.  I don't think developing stats for general use is anything to put a lot of effort into.


On the proposed stats...

AA6+.  This is not a dedicated platform.  It's a "pot shot" kind of thing compared to, say, a Hydra and doesn't fire much more ordinance than a man-portable system.  It just has better targeting.

30cm range?  The weapon is 48" which is universally 45cm.  Is it just to keep the AA under control?  If that's the case, it's easy enough to split the weapon stat line into 45cm ground attack AND 30cm AA attack.  Justify it with limited tracking capability or light ordinance that cannot effectively catch aircraft at that distance or whatever.

Fire arcs.  Definitely not.

Scout.  I'm not sure why they wouldn't be Scouts.  They were designed specifically as raiders.  From a practical aspect, though, I suppose losing Scout as an offset for the AA might keep them in line with Typhoons with respect to cost.

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Edit:  Ah, screw it.  Let's work them up.  It'll be fun.  Raven Guard and Ravenwing.  We might even retrofit it into White Scars and if not, the White Scars can always use Dark Angels or Raven Guard army lists.

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Neal

On losing scout they are slower than regular speeders unless they use afterburners and have only a one man crew. Doesn't seem they have the capacity to be the zippy scout force regular speeders are.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I'd say make this your first cut and see how it plays out. Everything else at this point is speculation. You won't really know if it's worthwhile until someone decides to take it in a game more than once.

If for the points value, AA6+ isn't worthwhile, then either drop the costs or bump it to AA5+.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time debating this. Observing the behavior on the table is much more important.

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"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Good, good, that’s the spirit! If we’re doing them lets definitely add them in as a small extra to the White Scars list though please – they are the ones that created them and use them the most so they really have to be in there! (on a personal level I’m quite keen to try a White Scars list at some point and this adds character to them). Just adding this unit is fine though, there really is no need or benefit in creating a wholly new variant White Scars list to slot them as Chroma suggested, they should be in the standard Net-ERC White Scars list.

Personally I’d add them to Ravenguard who it seems are shaping up to be a skimmerish themed chapter but not the Ravenwing (I suspect TRC referring to the Ravenwing may actually just have been a typo when he meant Ravenguard?) – Ravenwing already have extra rules to make them really special already and the Dark Angels are also an old fashioned and old tech chapter, befitting the very first founding space marine chapter. The Tempest on the other hand is really a very new invention, being created some 7 millennia after the Heresy and though they may have a few I don’t think they would go in for them to that great an extent or that they should have them represented in their epic list.

All lies, it clearly says RavenGuard now int he first post

Actually no doubt the Ravenwing do use them and other chapters, however it seems the skimmers list is a better place for them (plus DA are getting cheap hunters making these chaps surplus).

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Assuming my information is correct, the IA which introduced Tempests referenced the Ravenwing using them and gave stats for a Ravenwing version.

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Neal

I didn’t say they didn’t have any – that article says many other chapters have ‘a few’ and does give stats for a Ravenwing version, it’s more that they may not have enough of them to make them worth representing in the epic list and that really there are better places for them anyway. As the system here for adding new units to epic marines lists seems to be to add them only to the list or two most appropriate and not universally e.g. only the Black Templars and Scions of Iron listing Thunderhawk Transporters when infact they are generic and regularly used by every single chapter out there.

On this basis White Scars should definitely get Tempests, Raven Guard have a good case for them too assuming the, you could extend it to Ravenwing too but is this really needed? TRC who develops a DA list doesn’t seem to feel the desire to.