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Raveners

 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ Sep. 28 2009, 21:27 )

Warriors as infantry and Ravener as LV. I think I would try that out if I had enough time :smile:.

Why would you need to test this?  That is how it has been in previous versions.  Here's what happens:

You'll see no Raveners in Warrior Swarms and you'll see big pure infantry Synapse Swarms running around with impunity... and still no real reason to take Hormagaunts over Termagants.

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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:34 pm 
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I would rather see 4 Termagants and 3 Raveners in this swarm Chroma.

Also Raveners are a Fast Attack choice same as Gargoyles and not a Troops choice as Gaunts.
So in Wh40k youcanget twice asmuch sqauds of Gaunts than Raveners. AND Gaunts squads canbe 8 to 32 models while Ravener squads have only 1-6 models.
Giving ca a 1 to 7 ratio from Raveners to Gaunts.




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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ Sep. 28 2009, 21:29 )

Chroma you can field all kinds of swarms, but it seems that most others are not bothering with them anymore.

So how come it's an effective choice for me, but no one else seems to be able to make it work?

In your recent report, I still hold that five Warrior Groups would've done better for you than five Hive Tyrants.

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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ Sep. 28 2009, 21:27 )

So you consider four units of Raveners a "horde"?  That's a single Cluster.

Should Raveners be Uncommon?

What does "more Tyranidy" mean?  Do you actually mean "more little stuff"?

Of course more little stuff.  It's been a defining quality of tyranids that they are a hoarde army made up of millions of little bugs since their inception (My very first 40K army waaaay back in the day was nids and i still have the 2nd ed codex).

Ravenors are relatively uncommon as shown by their classification as "Fast attack" in the 40K nids codex and fluff wise they are a fairly new genotype based off the nid warrior base.  They are tunnellers and shock troops, wheras gaunts led by warriors are the grunts.

The simple fact of the matter is that gaunts are being replaced by Ravenors in an attempt to safeguard synapse by most players and this is just not right.  I don't remember anyone complaining overly about nid warriors when they were infantry and if i remember rightly they were changed to fit your ideal of the "Shoot the big ones" rule from 40K.  However in the process you've made the list actually feel and operate much less like Tyranids from the background material.


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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ Sep. 28 2009, 21:37 )

Of course more little stuff.  It's been a defining quality of tyranids that they are a hoarde army made up of millions of little bugs since their inception (My very first 40K army waaaay back in the day was nids and i still have the 2nd ed codex).

Well, my most recent "Horde of Tooth and Claw" armies have had 80+ models in them, and they've been quite effective with Warriors as LVs; so, I'm sorry, the idea that you can't make a playable "horde army" with Warriors as LVs doesn't wash.

So, if we want more "little stuff", should Gaunts be the only Common Brood?  Perhaps change it to 1 for 1 to get Uncommon.

Again, this is a Phase IV list when most of the "big toys" of the Bugs have had time to develop and deploy.  The Phase III list is *much* more a "little toys" army, as it represents an earlier stage of the attack.

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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:51 pm 
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Well, the basic idea for all nids is that it's basically 100x gaunts and 10x warriors+HT, Zoas, Carnies etc. So removing Gargoyles and Raveners from Common Brood would make the list much fluffier, as there should never ever be an equal (or even half as many) number of Raverers and gaunts (of any kind).

As for gaunts vs. hormagaunts, try bumping hormagaunts up to CC4+ and/or making them 50 points or 60 points. I have yet to see people running hormagaunts without a bunch of stat boosters.


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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:52 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ Sep. 28 2009, 21:43 )

So, if we want more "little stuff", should Gaunts be the only Common Brood?  Perhaps change it to 1 for 1 to get Uncommon.

Again, this is a Phase IV list when most of the "big toys" of the Bugs have had time to develop and deploy.  The Phase III list is *much* more a "little toys" army, as it represents an earlier stage of the attack.

I think that may be a reasonable solution.  

Perhaps you could make Raveners uncommon brood rather than common and make it a 1:1 ratio.  

Would this simply generate the same results or would it bring the numbers of Raveners down?    Would it simply lead to an overabundance of other larger bugs?


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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:52 pm 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ Sep. 28 2009, 21:37 )

wheras gaunts led by warriors are the grunts.

I'd say the Gaunts are often sent out "unled", in that there's no Warrior that's actually part of the swarm, just nearby "directors".

In the Phase III list there are "Brood Swarms" which just consist of Gaunts, with the option of some additional Gargoyles.

They use the following rule:

Special Rule - A1.1.1 Brood Swarms
Early in a Tyranid invasion massive swarms of Brood creatures are thrown against the enemy in an attempt to wear down their resistance.  Without the guidance of nearby Synapse creatures, these swarms soon revert to animalistic tendencies.

Brood swarms normally have an initiative rating of 3+; if any Synapse creatures are within 15cm of any unit in the Brood swarm, they gain a +1 to their initiative tests that is cumulative with the bonus given from the Relentless special rule.  Additionally, when rallying or regrouping, a Brood swarm may remove one extra Blast marker for each Synapse creature within 15cm of any unit in the Brood swarm.  Finally, Brood Swarms cannot claim or contest objectives.

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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:02 pm 
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I'm not sure where you get your information from Chroma but ever since the first Nid invasion "Hive fleet Behemoth" Nids have had synapse in the field to enable them to operate and it's loss has caused the invasion to falter.  Not once in 18 years of reading GW background material have i ever come across tales of nids sending out feral gaunts to roam as they please.


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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:07 pm 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ Sep. 28 2009, 22:02 )

I'm not sure where you get your information from Chroma but ever since the first Nid invasion "Hive fleet Behemoth" Nids have had synapse in the field to enable them to operate and it's loss has caused the invasion to falter.  Not once in 18 years of reading GW background material have i ever come across tales of nids sending out feral gaunts to roam as they please.

They're not "feral", they're Synapse controlled, it's just that the Warrior doesn't have to bunk in the same broodhive as the Gaunts. :laugh:

Synapse doesn't have to be part of the "squad" to have an effect and if there isn't Synapse nearby, Brood Swarms are going to be tough to manage. There's *definitely* tales of waves and waves of Gaunts being sent against enemies; that's what this represents.  I don't think there were mini-Warriors hiding inside those mass waves of bodies.

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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:12 pm 
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As i stated above in the novel "13th Legion" the first attack wave of the Tyranids where only Gaunts. No other creatures where seen.

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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:16 pm 
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That would be very odd. I would assume that there were some bigger gribbles (Hive Nodes, Warriors) hiding out of view. Gaunts really aren't capable of operating on their own at all.


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 Post subject: Raveners
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Quote: (Notanoob @ Sep. 28 2009, 22:16 )

That would be very odd. I would assume that there were some bigger gribbles (Hive Nodes, Warriors) hiding out of view. Gaunts really aren't capable of operating on their own at all.

There's no real "range" given on the reach of the Hive Mind, it may have been strongly focused on such swarms, maintaining complete control.

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