Strange, but I've been reading plenty of books about the current conflict in Afghanistan were Apache helicopters are using hellfire missiles to attack taliban positions. AT to kill Inf in the real world.

There is an awful video from the second Iraq (or maybe first?) war where an Apache engages 2 infantry, with the guncamera recording everything. First they shoot a Hellfire at the infantry and one falls, with the other falling a second later. Crew aren't convinced he is dead so give a burst of 30mm which gets him up and limping as fast as he can go, at which point they kill him with another burst of 30mm fire.
Someone with more knowledge than me may like to correct me but I thought engaging wounded soldiers which are of no threat to your forces was against some of the lovely civilised rules of war we have?

And yes Dobbsy its a waste, but its better than nothing if its a safe kill. The real target can wait till turn 2 when all the flak cover in their area has gone, and under E&C's rules they are lit up like a Christmas tree.

like it or not, there is no justification for a WE killer that an simply fly through or avoid the enemy flak, its good enough with range 45.

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So the AX-1-0 can't automatically fly through all flak with impunity and destroy whatever it wants every turn? Boo hoo.

As TRC says, if you play safe turn one, they are awesome in turn two and three, assuming you have synergistically killed, surpressed or spread out the AA.

They may be a challenge to use, but that's exactly what they should be, else they'll be a total no-brainer.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

When the enemy is dead, then he is no longer a threat to your forces. 100% guaranteed, all the time.

However, given that neither of us are aware of the full context of the engagement, then at best, any comment on actions taken is really just speculation...and off topic.

Let's just move along, shall we?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

As others have said, part of the 'challenge' is to work out ways of getting ML capable formations into range to permit GM equipped units to fire with greater effect. I might add that not everyone leaves their titans in the rear, so they can be lit up by one formation, retaining with the AX-1-0 to attack (and presumably after other fire has stripped the shields).

However this general problem with ML/GM is one of the main reasons why I have been advocating that Tiger Sharks should be able to deploy ML Drone formations, which to my mind epitomises the way Tau use technology to avoid needless loss of their troops. Sure the Drones are not likely to survive long, but they distract the enemy, potentially deny territory and can even defend themselves against opposing light troops.

Final thought is that the 'sacrifical' ML formation can nevertheless be used to devastating effect with co-ordinated fire - but obviously needs carefull planning and probably set up for turn #2 or #3.

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"Play up and play the game"

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

It would be a mistake to assume that the Tau throw away their Drones in that manner. The background makes a point of saying that the Tau don't value their Drones less than their other troops.

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Strongly agree. They are resources that don't bleed.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Well, when I mentioned a 'sacrificial' ML formation, I would suggest that includes all types, not just ML Drones. And equally, I thought I was describing a version of 'killing blow' that included the use of an advanced ML formation to increase the impact.

As for drones, I am not a 'fluffyphile' but I understood that the Tau used drones for all sorts of things including shields, remote sentries etc which by their very nature are essentially sacrificial. While I understand that Gun Drones being a 'resource' may not fall into this picture, under the list as it is they are the only Drone left to represent all other types. And as such in the right circumstances I would have thought the Tau would use Drones as the advanced ML formation in preference to troops.

They could even be used in a truely sacrifical mode in order to make the enemy react, as part of the 'patient hunter' strategy (dragging some part of the enemy formation out of position etc), but in any event surely it is up to the player how he chooses to use his forces?

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

Grow up Zombo.

I think you both misunderstand my point of view. I'm not advocating a plane that can fly through flak with impunity - I don't want that at all as it's not much fun to be on the receiving end. I was advocating a squadron that wasn't so brittle for 350 points. There's a huge difference. You may have noticed I have said a few times now, that if you don't recost them alter them. They are too expensive as they stand. I've never once asked for the guns to upgraded, or for them to be a 2DC WE. I simply asked for something to be done.


I disagree if you lose a plane to interceptors or flak....


Yes, and enemy interceptors are so easy to avoid right...? pfft. Your theory is sound. Your application of that theory is not exactly cut and dry and a 100% option. Ever tried weedling out a hydra tank in the midst of a Leman Russ formation?


Yep you better believe I use MLs on WE engines when they're close enough.


Yes I think the word "positions" is the key here. My point is they're not shooting them at infantry troopers. They won't be targetting men they'd be targetting for area effect/suppression. Any HE weapon is good for that. Hellfires are dual purpose in that respect. RailCannons on an AX1-0 are not dual purpose. They're solely designed to take out WEs. Any other application is largely a waste.

OK I'm done arguing as I'm starting to repeat myself.

Grow up the both of you.    

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Sorry Mum....  

Had another game with 1.09 last night vs Frogbear's World Eaters.

I'll wait for Frogbear to post his batrep but guess what happened...?

Yes that's right, AX1-0 squadron shot down without firing a shot. 3 hell blades easily accounted for this squadron. I manoeuvred well and I was even under the umbrella of my own Skyray flak for extra protection, but 6x 4+AA intercept attacks were impossible to save with one 4+ armour save and of course jinking is pointless.

In fact having three hellblade squadrons arrayed against me was always going to be an impossible task for the AX1-0. As I've mentioned before it's not just ground flak that makes it difficult for these planes. Any strong AA defence is too much for this squadron. You can try to reduce the flak/AA defence over a number of turns but how do you defeat 3 interceptor squadron with only 1 barracuda squadron and a skyray and the AX1-0?

Disappointed yet again with this squadron. But I'll continue to take them to show how average they really are.

Up against that I'd say you were doomed!

Personally I'd always try and take at least 3 Skyrays, mind you.


That's the spirit!  

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I've been thinking for a while that a 5+ RA save might be suitable for AX-1-0s.

If all goes well, i should be using them myself in the next couple of weeks and will hopefully be able to post a bat-rep.

I will try and get the bat rep up today. I will state that three squadrons of 3 Hellblade interceptors is a standard list design against most forces these days with such a list as each unit of 3 has more staying power than most (or any) other airforce units in the game.

That said, from what I saw last night (barring unlucky dice rolls), Tau airforce are always going to have an issue with such a use of 600 points by the opposition.

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