My concern was the pricing of the Furioso Dreadnought. Why is it 75 points with vastly inferior options to just about every other 50 point dreadnought?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Because it has 2x MW attacks and a 3+ armour save?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yes.

So opposed to a ranged weapon and +1MW attack, is there a real difference?

How do you expect to get it into CC? Especially when it may be the only AV in the squad to be sniped?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

The same way any Dreadnought reaches CC, Thunderhawk or Drop Pod.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

2 MW CC EAs are inferior?

edit: slow vytzka is slow

I don't want to make this a long discussion so I will try and ask this as succinctly as possible.

To use that option, you still have to spend the extra points. Hence it's role is exactly one half as effective as a Dread with a CC weapon and a ranged weapon. In combat, it then becomes twice as effective.

So would not these factors balance themselves out? If you know you are going to be coming up against BA, then AA is a factor to consider, and maybe scout as well. In this aspect, the Furioso is of equal value strategically to it's cousins overall.

25 points is a huge jump and one would really have to consider taking one (if at all).

E&C. Have you made a list up and found yourself taking a Furioso at 75 points or were there other options of strategic value that you considered first. I am sure at 50 points it is a viable option. At 75 points..... well you are throwing points away (IMO)

Am I missing something?

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

You are missing that when developing army lists I am bold conceptually and cautious with points values.

Perhaps testing shall show that it is *overpriced* in time, but I am content that testing will not show that it is *underpriced*.

And that is as it should be.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

That's fine. I just find it strange that Dreadnoughts now have been tested for years at 50 points in every Marine list and yet BA pay a premium for them.

My interest stems from the list that I am working on, and we have very similar dreadnoughts with a very similar army approach to battle. Hence why I thought a discussion was in order, as we can help each other out  

Cheers.....

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Perhaps 65 points?

It all comes down to the fact that you can expect Dreadnoughts to do one thing, then die, as they are picked out by AT 'sniping'.

Furioso Dreadnoughts do that "one thing" a bit better, before they die.  

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Dreadnoughts have been widely considered overpriced and not worth the trouble in Codex Marine list before the change to 3+ armor save was accepted.

Blood Angels also has another dreadnought, Vulcan, which sports a multi melta and is quite obviously better than codex dreadnought. It's more convenient to have them both priced at the same value. If Furioso is found lacking, it can always get another stat boost (or so I hope!)

vytzka

Are you stating that you believe that they are the right cost at 75 points? There appears to be a contradiction between your first and second paragraph.

Also, you do realise that the Multi Meta is only a 15cm range? Some may argue that this weapon is not better than a codex dreadnought. Just a thought....

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

The Multi-melta give the Vulcan a MW firefight attack as well... that's why it's "better".

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

 Not if I shoot the wanker at 30cm  

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I believe that generally a Vulcan is superior than a Furioso, as it is more versatile, but not by 25 points. I also believe that a Furioso is better than a normal DCCW/AC dreadnought for air assault purposes. Consider that they have better armor than your assault marines, dish out quite a bit of damage (one macro hit on average), will soak hits in return with 3+ armor, and if it gets killed by a macro hit in return, great! Your jump pack formation will be free to roam the battlefield without being slowed down.

I haven't used dreadnoughts much with my Flesh Tearers, though, so I might well be wrong.

I mean, if they were 50 points a pop, that would be awesome, don't get me wrong But I think they'd be a tad too good. 60 or 65 would be about right but we don't do that stuff anymore.