So I am to question Chroma on the 250 points for 4 defilers?

Seriously, at 250 points they are a 'no-brainer'. Two shots with some range, fearless, walker, infiltrator, invulnerable save, 20cm move, and the MW attack really place these guys in a similar category (for me at least) in usefulness as Terminators.

A unit of 4 Chaos Termies in Chroma's list is 300 with a character so maybe 250 without. However a Termies true cost would be around 65 points. So I would think that 260 points would be about right for such a unit. Erring on the side of caution however (remember Fearless), 275 points is where I would place them.

Just my thoughts on that one

As for Blood Slaughterers, I am still unsure about these but 250 points appears to be a safe points value. In reality, as a seperate unit unto themselves, they are probably worth about 240 points (IMO) so I guess I was wrong on this one. I was under the mentality of an upgrade choice in which 50 points may be appropriate.

Cheers dude.

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I can't help but notice that in the LatD list, 4 Defilers are 400 points (which does seem a bit steep), four Silver Towers are 325 points and four Slaanesh Daemon Knights are 275 points. All of which are more than the 250 points they cost here. Now, admittedly, what's really useful in one army may be less so in another, but this does suggest that the Daemon Engine formation is a little under-priced. And, indeed, that maybe having one price for all the different engines isn't the best way to go.

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I just copied what was in the original army list.

The thing that bothers me about the Daemon Engines is that these "recently turned" Chaos Marines have such easy access to pretty "elite", God-specific machines.

If all the Cult/Marked stuff came out of the restricted "allies" section, I might find it more palatable.  And, yes, many of the Daemon Engines seem pretty good at 250 points.

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Actually i consider increasing the Daemon Engine Summoning to 300pts.
Adding that you can only 1/3 of your points in Aircrafts, Titans AND God specific stuff sounds like a good idea. To word the Cult Marine upgrade (not the formation) inthis way might be difficult. If taking the Cult Marines upgrade should only the cost of the upgrade count towards the 1/3 limitation or the whole formation?

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Is there any way you can get the army list onto a single page?


According to the background, it's typically the CSM who get the Daemon Engines, not the L&TD forces.

Only in Epic is that reversed.

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My suggestion would be to work out what the points are for each one as a squad, and then see about building them up as point cost options.

Some combinations at 300 points will be overpriced IMO.

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[devil's advocate]
Much like several combinations of Aspect Warriors are overpriced?
[/devil's advocate]

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The first post of this thread should have a link to the armylist on a single page.

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Are there even L&tD forces in 40k anymore?  At least of the cultist variety?  Isn't it mainly "renegade" IG types?

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LatD in Wh40k is nothing more than Traitor Guard. LatD of Epic with all its daemon engines suggest a Traitor non-Space Marine force which comes directly out of the Eye of Terror.

LatD are to Imperial Guard what Chaos Space Marine Legions are to Space Marines.

Traitor Guard (as Servants of Slaughter/Decay) are to Imperial Guard what Renegade Chapter Chaos Space Marines are to Space Marines.

Renegade Guard (as Vraks) are to Imperial Guard what Renegade Chapter Space Marines are to Space Marines (note the missing "Chaos" they might have started worshiping Chaos but for now it has no effect yet)

And as Chroma said look at the first posting of this thread for a one-page version of the most recent version (V3.16).

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Yes there are, they get army lists in Imperial Armour VI (Khorne) and VII (Nurgle) and are referred to as having started as Traitor Guard but have later become "Lost & Damned". They get lots of mutants and beasts and stuff, but no Daemon Engines.

The 'traitor guard' list in Imperial Armour V is just that, "traitors" rather than full-on Lost and Damned.

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Update!

Full colour version of V3.17 is now available in the attachment in the first posting.

Changelog:
- splitted Daemon Engine Summoning into separate formations per unit type with separate points cost.
- restircted god-specific Daemon Engine formations (you now need Cult Marines of the relevant Chaos God to field god-specific Daemon Engine formations of that Chaos God).
- added Damnators Assault Force Chaos Dreadnought formation.

Is the background pale enough or to pink? I tried to mimic the rulebook layout as best as i could. Originally the brown background has some texture but this isn't available to me.

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As the Red Corsairs have no particular affinity for technology, this formation is not needed or required.

That kind of formation belongs in an Iron Warriors army list.

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Blood Slaughterer is +75 points in the daemon Engines upgrade. Should this not be +50 points?

Defiler Assault Force: I think you could probably make this 275 points as a discount for taking them as a unit. Then again, if these are meant to be rarer than in a chaos list, 300 points is appropriate

I would query the Damnators Assault Force. Interesting...  Not sure if it is fluffy for chaos dreads to work as a unified squad however in such a force. Interesting however.

Overall looks ok from an initial view.

As for the colour version, as long as it is print-worthy, then I do not mind. If the printer hates black on red, then I hate it.

Cheers dude  

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By fluf the Damnators Assault Force is not restricted to a certaion Renegade Chapter/Traitor Legion.
And i can already field two formations with 2 Chaos Dreadnoughts as upgrades each. So why not take these 4 Chaos Dreadnoughts and stick them in a separate formation?

That the Blood Slaughterer upgrade costs more than the formation is intentional. The formation is intended to be quite small so it should cost a premium to make it bigger.
But i`m not dead set on the initial formations size. Any suggestions and points cost (for all the Daemon Engine formations)?

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