I think adding a shooting variant of Fex would be a useful addition (Something like 2x 4+FF and no proper shooting attack or Twin VC AP4+/AT5+).

The point is the fex is inferior to the assault spawn, it costs less. When you can't squeeze in assault spawn then a few fexes are a decent alternative particularly as a garrison force.

I played 3 games with my eldar vs new Nids now.

Wins: 1
Loss: 2

Reason for the win was that the player used only the models he has, which does not include Raveners.

Raverners are realy the ONE thing that makes nids loose or win the game.
Without them it is much too easy to kill all the synapse broods in a swarm.
If nids take at least 4 of them in each of their swarms its realy hard to kill any synapse at all. Even if i shoot at a swarm with 10 falcons i will only kill a synapse if i´m kinda lucky.

And if i manage to kill a Warrior or two, then the last Warrior still will spawn enough of the killed raveners to protect the last warrior if i don´t waste lots of firepower on this swarm.

Even if i shoot at the swarm and then assault with aspekts it allways ends like this:
I kill nearly all or all Common & Uncommen Broods, win assault by 2-4 points ahead but the freakin synapse is fearless, runs away, has +2 on rally and spawns some broods again.
I lost half of my expansiv aspects and they can do pretty much nothing for the rest of the game.

It does not make sense to try to break the swarms by assaulting as they just rally everytime an can spawn again, while you just loos expansiv troops.

Breaking by shooting is not even possible due to the expendable rule.

Another Problem is, that due to the need of raveners the horde feeling of nids suffers a bit imho.

I don´t realy know how to fix this, but something has to be done it sucks that nids can only be played with a big bunch of never released models and that they are not that much of a horde that they should be, in fact they only get this feeling due to the spawning rule.

I would suggest to lower the save, CC and FF of raveners as they are not just needed atm , they are too good too imho. I think it´s good enough that they protect the synapse, they don´t need a decent safe & good combat abilitys in adition to that!

And i think the all fearless synapse broods & expandable rule makes them in some aspekts as anoying to fight as some of the all fearless chaos cult lists which is realy not a good thing as assaulting them is allway just plain dumb if you don´t kill all synapse broods.

For the Horde feel i think Termagaunts & Hormagaunts should be a bit cheaper.

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how exactly function disrupt with tyranid swarm? If they hit brood what happened?

I've not used raveners once...and i must say (maybe due to my opponents) that i've not lost a synaps swarm yet!
Next time i play i'll be sure to point out this weakness again and see what happens.

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How do you protect your synapse swarms? Only the big beasts?
If so, then i would imagin that you had not that much of a Horde but only big bugs in your army?

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hy i've played another game with my friend. He deploy 2 * rough rider 3baneblade foramtion( with the changes i think they are pretty usefull now) 1 shadowsword , 3 basilisk 1 mechanized inf 1 inf(with 2 ogryn)  4 vultures and lena russ company. This time i try to be more horde than the last time (i played 4 harridan last) so i deploy 2 harridan 1hive+6 carnifex(this time i garrisoned )1 node +8 biovore 1 hydra(the smaller titan i don't remmber name) 2 *7 genestealer, 2* 3 warrior+1zoant(i see ,later that it only move 15 so is uselees unless the formatio can garrison) + 4 ravener +4 gant +3 horma and 1 * 3warrior +1 zoa +4 ravener +4 gant +2 horma.

So  in total 9 activation not bad i think. so this time i garrisoned the carnifex and they can hit something but only because my friend garrisoned his inf too near the middle line and so i  garrisoned carnifex near them and i garrisoned genstealer with theyr zoc inside (so he had to engage me).This is a very bad error for him so he must engage my gene formation (my carni are 5 cm near gene so i call them for help) and be annihilated (only 2 stand remain broken) in other turn they do support to genstealer who engage rough rider (with the ff attack i can annihilate also them)and in turn 2 engage basilisk and destroy them (with harridan support) in lat turn go to conquest one of my object and one of enemy. So they do well but the error from my friend help them a lot.They use the cc attack only one time other time they use ff , the best thing is that they are tough unless hit by macroweapon. Howhewer other uncommon brood are better than them ,mainly because i must use 2 uncommon choice to reach 6 of them....

The biovore , mah i want to use them because i've a lot of model near 12 i think. I garrisoned them with the synapse node near the middle line in some building with 4 cover (they are all close to the other but i think he use his barrage to kill other thing) mah , they must always use sustained to arrive to a good 60 cm but with ap5 at6 they are a little weak ; disrupt hel a little here so the can suppress one of the baneblade (doing 1 damage) put 3 bm on leman russ  and the 3 turn (when i really need them ) they failed the activation and with the 30 cm the can do nothing. The other uncommon are far better than them , they add a little fire to the army (but i think dactlys are better , next time i test them), but maybe the can have 45 cm for be a little better or be more for 1 choose like 5 or 6 (this time i get 8  of them taking 2 uncommon choice). The swarms even with 4 ravener each didin't do too well in the end of game remain 1 broken warrior of ass 1

another broken warrior of ass 2 and 3 warrior 1 ravener and 2 gaunt of ass 3 (if he killed the loner warrior he get the bts and so at 3 turn we have a 2-2 situation , fortunatly he can't kill all of them and so i won 2-1;) the smaller titan failed the first activation  then doubled and placed a bm on leman russ then i was annihilated by a single shot of shadowsworrd who make 3 damage 1 critical and rolled again the crit was a 6 so titan killed. I have to retry him because he can't do nothing , but i'm not very impressed by his stat ,he have the good thing that is cheap but if don't arrive in cac he do nothing.

Harridan are usefull for do support to other formation and place some bm to small formation (triyng break them) so i think theyr price is correct maybe a little more but 200 is a little too much so maybe is better leave them as they are.

Well...as an example i do tend to only have two swarms with warriors in the army! THe army i run at the moment looks like

1/2 Hive Tyrants, Zoanthrope: 3 Carnifex
3 Warriors, 1 Zoanthrope: 16 Gaunts, 2 Gargoyles
3 Warriors, 1 Zoanthrope: 16 Gaunts, 2 Gargoyles
Dominatrix: 6 Haruspex
Synapse Node: 2 Dactylis
Harridan
Harridan
Heirophant
6 Stealers

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Hello all! Recently took a break from my Eldar after getting some epic nids from a friend of mine. Had first game with them against Black Legion last week - first impressions definitely seem good, but Im worried the +2 to rally bonus might be excessive, certainly saved my hide over the course of that game despite my clunky use of the list.

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Just tryed the 9.2.1 list vs black legion and what a game, one of the best in a long time.
I'm not going to give report on every thing just things that brought up questions and humming and hawing.

1. I think they need to make the spawning rules a bit better defined, we wernt sure if you
could spawn back dead WE creatures with the points or use them to heal or what ever. cus it
says 1 WE point for 3 spawn points, so dose that mean you can bring back some of the bigger
guys if you get a good roll and if so, do you need to roll back enough points to fully bring
it back or can it come back with 1 wound or some thing??

2. I know they have been brought up time and again but harridans and raveners seem a BIT too
good. why 4 DC on harridan? I thought 3 was perfect. and only 1 MW attack please...

Ravener- I think CC 4+ with 2 attacks would be ok and leave the FF at 5 cus right now they
seem to be good at every thing and not just by a little bit but a lots. I mean, I never
thought of raveners as crazy good CC guys in 40k(i know this is not 40k but they where there first befor they came here) or even that great at shooting, but for some reason they
are way better then the 40k counterparts. I mean there good, but not THAT good.

3. 15cm range weapons. I dont know why they are even a option. i mean I know they used to
be flame templates (that i liked more) but 15cm? why would you ever fire it to effect
instead of engaging? I never seen these weapons shot since the change(only 4 games but still, even for wraith guard) I think the min range for ANY shooting weapon should be 20cm.
At that point you might use them if you know you cant get into assault or a very good one.
If we could get units that had 15cm range weapons with out them for cheaper every one would.
Honestly, its like a bad joke.

4. Breaking - almost never happens to tyranids... and in a game were mobility is every thing
I think there needs to be some kinda change to how tyranids take blast markers or the
effects of taking them. My thoughts - if they take sugniffent damnage/ blast markers they
get pushed back slightly (10-15 cm) cus "The Hive mind is adapting to a new strategy".
Allowing players to concentrate enough fire on units to push them back a bit so they wont
get engaged next move would be...cool/good/better. Its just that breaking units is a big
part of epic and Tyranids seem to ignore that fact... Not that great in my opinion. Just
allow the tyranid opponent to move them back in a direction after blasting them would seem
like a good... flow?

o ya, and we thought 5 biovores instead of 4 for 150 would make taking them... maby worth it
and tyrgons suck...  need to do some thing with them, they too cool to be
sitting on my shelf after 2 games(of 4), never to see the table again.

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Been drinking much this morning?

This one caught my eye so I have decided to answer it.

When the force comes up against skimmer units or an entire force of skimmers, you may very well appreciate the addition of the 15cm shot rather than the Charge especially in the case where 1 or 2 BM is all you need to break the opposing unit.

Hope this helps

Cheers.....

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This makes it a little hard to answer some more of your observations (like the comment on Biovores) without seeing a battle report, the table set-up, and the actions throughout the game. Biovores set up with a synapse node can be a real problem for an opponent. So I am curious to know what you have taken them with and how were they used.

Other points you have made are in line with observations from others so I will leave it at that. It is always good to get responses for such a list as they never seem to get as much play as they deserve.

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From what I understand and have read around here.

1) Spawning must bring back the whole creature so you need 6 spawn points for a Trygon and 9 for a Hierodule (So only Dominatrix can spawn them). You can't heal wounds either.

2)Chroma is looking at a change in Raveners for the next version (9.2.2), I think it's going to CC4+. He's put a few battle reports up in the relevant forum (Rage of Raveners games). Harridans are a bit of a pain at the moment, it's split down the middle in terms of them sweeping all before them or dying rather too easily (Crossfire is brutal).

3) 5cm range weapons can also be used for a double where an engagement is too far.

4) Tyranids are designed to be near invulnerable to breaking from shooting. Beating them in CC is possible and that causes a break as normal.

5) Biovores get you a set number of shots over the more variable Dactylis blast. Dactylis though is the favoured option for artillery.

6) Trygons in a sub swarm with raveners does make quite a nasty, if short lived, surprise. As an Uncommon Brood Creature not really, the points are better spent on Hierodules.

I got a 3.5K game in vs. Space Marines, but we had to end it after two turns due to lack of time. The SM had the upper hand, but it was neither lopsided nor really decided. It would probably go to turn 4.

Just a couple of quick remarks:

At the moment, there are a surprising range of armour saves for creatures quite alike.
Haruspex 4+ RA (which makes them exceedingly good, although they never make it into CC)
Malefactor 5+ RA
Exocrine 4+
Dactylis 5+

It somewhats bothers me, and also makes it far too easy to play them wrong (in the heat of the battle)

Lictors (vs Marines especially). I find Lictors troublesome, mostly because Teleport and Strategy 1 is not really a particularly nasty combination. Since one Lictor formation does not really work effectively, I guess you have to field two, but then we are talking 3-400 points for a formation, that performs worse than the other independent formations. My suggestion would be Free Planetfall, but I am interested in other people's thoughts as well.

Exocrines? I fail to see how to use them. I tried them with the Dominatrix, and made a double once, but in an army that is so dependent on march & engage, I find 2 for 150 to be way too expensive. There is not really any synapse that provides synergy with them. If I chose an infestation node, I find Dactylis far better for the same points, and the Dominatrix (the intended herder?) rarely shoot. Also, almost always being two, they are very easy to suppress.

Tyranid Warriors and LV? In this game, I lost one TW during the whole game. I do not find it a real issue any longer, as long as you design swarms to protect them.

Someone commented on Raveners. I support the toning down, but maybe FF as well to FF6+. I find that Raveners and Hormagaunts are essential to swarms, since they cover 40 cms in engagements. Without them, Tyranids would be sitting ducks. However, with Raveners and termies both having FF5+, I think the termagaunt niche has been successfully claimed by the Ravener.

Biovores/Exocrines: My issues with these troops are not stats, but the added cost of the 2:1 restriction and synapse. I will try (next time) to field an assault group with 4 biovores. The plan is to occupy a building and provide an extra back-up swarm/activation. Still, this costs me 275, takes up an uncommon slot and eats into the synapse allowance.

General feel: I find that tyranid swarms shrug off most of the shooting, yet feel sluggish, rely on Infiltrator to get off engagements, are quite easy to assault and break, but hard to wipe out. Still, I would not say that shooting is meaningless. A BM means that they move on 3+, and since tyranids have no shooting, you practically disarm a swarm until turn 3 if it fails an activation.

The other thing I have noticed is that Tyranids rely heavily on the objectives game. To avoid being danced around, you have to move to somewhere where the enemy cannot avoid you.

/Fredmans

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I'll be adding comments here soon; just a little busy getting the NetEA army book together, and helping my wife with some PhD stuff.

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