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God specific lists and Fearless

 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 28 Aug. 2009, 07:07 )

Quote: (frogbear @ 27 Aug. 2009, 22:04 )

so no feedback at all from the veterans out there?  :;):

FB, you've got to learn some patience... it hasn't even been a day since your last post in here, there's a lot of slow, old men on this forum.   :))

hehe.

Cheers dude. I was just leaving to go for the day and thought I would throw in a bump.

Noted for next time   :agree:

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:09 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 27 Aug. 2009, 13:10 )

*********************************************
Remove Fearless in place of....

1. On a charge action initiated by World Eater Berzerkers, a Berserker may roll an additional attack on the first round of combat.

2. In an assault(only), berzerkers may make an armour save vs any extra hits suffered for losing the combat.
*********************************************

*No feedback makes Frogbear Cry    :_(  *

Hi Guys.

Is there any comment or assistance I can attain for the above idea?

I was hoping to make it in before the weekend starts and the boards go silent   :sigh:

Thanks in advance for any feedback or assistance

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:47 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ 29 Aug. 2009, 19:30 )

So I'm not sure. That's why I didn't respond immediately as I'm ... not sure :smile:.

That's cool. After some brainstorming and debate, we are going to try the following as a replacement for the Fearless rule:

- Remove Fearless from World Eater Berserkers, Bikes, Terminators, & Chosen
- Decrease the CC of all these units by 1 (3+ Berserkers, Terminators, Chosen, 4+ for Bikes)
- +1 extra attack for each of these units as a base stat (normal attack)
- Adopt the Stubborn rule for all the above units.
- Formations without a Fearless unit will be 2+ initiative
- Character units/upgrades will retain/attain the Fearless skill

As detailed in the World Eater discussion thread, "Stubborn is being used not for the name, yet for the ability is ensues, much like the skills 'Walker' as used by the White Scars, and Infiltrator for such units as Juggernaughts. The name withstanding, we believe that the ability is representative of these maddened individuals."

That should work well within the rules without the need of changing or introducing new rules.

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:33 pm 
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* Just because you're a berzerker doesn't mean your any better in CC. *

* Fearless is for individuals that refuse to be scared shitless. *

Stubborn is good. Maybe Inspired could be used too? This is inside CC after all.

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 29 Aug. 2009, 21:33 )

* Just because you're a berzerker doesn't mean your any better in CC. *

Yes. However they are known to be probably the best HtH in the galaxy are they not?

* Fearless is for individuals that refuse to be scared shitless. *

Hence the characters have kept the skill

Stubborn is good. Maybe Inspired could be used too? This is inside CC after all.
8 Inspired Berserkers in one unit? Surely you are joking?

Did I read the above correctly?   :p




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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:34 pm 
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The last was perhaps over-kill... ;)

Haven't there been some discussion about giving a unit as such Inspiring?

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 29 Aug. 2009, 22:34 )

The last was perhaps over-kill... ;)

Haven't there been some discussion about giving a unit as such Inspiring?

Chaos have a significant and purposeful lack of inspiring throughout the lists.

I have only included it for Angron (not even a normal Daemon Prince gets it).

So it was important to keep within the same design otherwise the world may end at the inclusion of such an ability and we would not want that  :)

It would be interesting to see what the other lists do if they ever intend on removing Fearless.

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Ok. Fearless.
I can't see a reason for adding it to any other than those already with it.
In a god-specific list there will be more of them (than in the Black Legion base list), more of "initiates" (I would prefer to call these "chosen" thou, rather than the terminators...).
But it's still only them that are so keyed up to the god that they rather die than fail.
And that is what I see as fearless in EA.
So berserkers, noise, plague and thousand sons would be the only ones with fearless.
And I really see no reason why obliterators should have it.

As someone pointed out a few pages(?) back, there will be retinues of "inititates" with perhaps some ordinary CSM added (like Black Templar's novices) as trainees/butlers. And some "we like Khorne/Slaanesh..." retinues too with only ordinary CSM. Etc etc. Bottom line being there will be heaps of fearless (ie "rather dead than shamed") without adding any new.


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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:01 pm 
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so what are you saying Erik?

That rambling left me confused.

Are you saying that such a playtest is a good thing or bad thing?

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:59 pm 
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I *think* the ramblings say there's to much Fearless in the god specific list.
But! Looking at the suggestion at the top of this list I wonder why berzerkerz would not be Fearless?

But I'm back at one of my own agendas here... Do Not Change Stats, only formations.
With god specific I would for an example turn the retinue around. Like eight Khorne berzerkers and four "Khorne novice CSM" etc.

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:16 am 
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Quote: (Erik M @ Sep. 08 2009, 5:59 AM)

But I'm back at one of my own agendas here... Do Not Change Stats, only formations.

That is easier said when standing back and looking at the lists. When trying to remove Fearless and find the replacements, especially with the amount of time and effort invested, I can honestly say that keeping stats as they are may not be the solution.

I hope people will keep an open mind to the development  :)

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:20 am 
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Quote: (Hena @ Sep. 08 2009, 3:07 PM)

If you notice I did go this route with DG. 2 Plague Marines and 4 DG Chaos Marines with Plague Marines being identical to Black Legion list and DG Chaos Marines having the Stubborn (name likely to change at some point to avoid clashing with Squats/Demiurg).

Yep

Your list is pretty much always within arms reach.   :)

We would just like to try a few different options before trying to add another form of troop at the moment. I personally like the 3+CC with 2 attacks at the moment. I would really like to get more combats (BtB combats) to see this more. Currently the Terminators rock hard.  :agree:    Just need the berserkers to make contact a few more times to really test this out.

How have you found your combats when you lose a CC and still have Fearless and Stubborn left in the unit? Do you ever seperate them and lose the stubborns to keep the Fearless units within 5cm of the enemy?

As for the name change of Stubborn, is it really necessary?

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 Post subject: God specific lists and Fearless
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:29 am 
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Is a simpler answer to all the various issues, and attempted fixes via various special rules, surrounding the fearless cult marine lists not to make them all initiative 2?

Make the lists initiative 2 except for when they are acting as the 'should'

World Eaters 2 - 1 when engaging
Death Guard 2 - 1 when advancing
Emperors Children 2 - 1 when ?
Thousand Sons - 2 - 1 when the have a leader - representing their automaton/sorcerer background

The mechanic is already their in the Ork list

Therefore normally you will be rallying on a 4 - so you don't want to break, leave your formation guarding in place or on its objective - more often than not will be within 30cm of the enemy - so will be trying to rally on a 5 which is not something you want to be attemting too often esepcially if the unit is expensive, as fearless units should be.

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