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World Eaters List - Be Scared!
frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:08 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 26 Aug. 2009, 02:26 )

If Slaughterfiends would have Transport (as they should be able to transport one unit of Khorne Berzerkers)then their Infiltrators ability would make more sence ;)
Infiltrate 40cm inthe opponents formation and unleash the Berzerkers just in the middel of it instead just only at the front.

That is not a bad point of view BL and does fit the fluff in some regard.

I will put this proposal through with the other potential reviews as well.

Thanks for your input. It is muchly appreciated   :D

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:10 am 
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Quote: (Blish @ 26 Aug. 2009, 07:55 )

That seems a little too good for my liking.

8v)

We might give it a go as they are using this transport in place of Dreadclaws which would normally be a preferred and cheaper option all round.

I am just unsure about the difficult terrain test to ride one of these and whether it is necessary. Epic is a game that can be brutal when you have to roll 7 or 8 dice not needing to roll a 1.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:17 am 
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That seems a little too good for my liking

That's why you pay a premium for them. I don't think 400-500 is out of the question for 4 slaughterfiends and 4 berzerkers. That's what I'll be implementing at least with this formation.
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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:19 am 
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OK

So updated reviews:

- Bloodslaughters Transport ability reviwed for inclusion
- Bloodslaughters reviewed as an upgrade choice for a unit or character after the Transport option is discussed
- Bloodslaughters and Slaughterfiends to be given their own unit (as a support option)
- Mutants and Big mutants to be looked at as an inclusion (makes sense that World Eaters would utilize such examples of pure strength - although unwieldy - in combat as potential fodder)
- Review the role of World Eater Initiates and determine whether a longer ranged weapon is appropriate for a price increase or a drop in CC
- Potential review of Doom Blasters and Cannons of Khorne merging as one support option rather than being two separate choices - whilst still keeping the numbers as 3 and 4 respectively.
- Greater Brass Scorpion to be added (hopefully soon)
- Review all titan weapon fit-outs
- Review whether Bloodrage is appropriate for the Initiates and Bloodgors

Errors to be fixed up:
- Transport capacity for the Despoiler

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:20 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 26 Aug. 2009, 10:19 )

So updated reviews:

- Bloodslaughters Transport ability reviwed for inclusion

My biggest concern is that the World Eaters are not orks hanging off trucks to get into battle. However the fluff is there so it will be reviewed.

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:21 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 26 Aug. 2009, 10:17 )

That's why you pay a premium for them. I don't think 400-500 is out of the question for 4 slaughterfiends and 4 berzerkers. That's what I'll be implementing at least with this formation.

Are you pricing the slaughterfiends at 75 points a pop?

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:31 am 
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No, more like 85-95. They're a faster Defiler with better CC abilities/less shooting, and a transport option. I have the formation at 450 right now but I'm not entirely sure they shouldn't be 500.

Just for some idea of what they are supposed to be:
Slaughterfiend Fluff
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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:02 am 
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Yeah thanks dude. I have not really looked at the comparable stats to a normal defiler to tell you the truth so I went with 75 points as an upgrade option to a unit without Transport. It was always on a to-do list.

At 450-500 points, it appears that it would be correct, however I am unsure whether anyone would take such a unit based on the low activations it may mean for the army as a whole. At that price, Terminators are a better option I would think. It does have merit however, as your 4 slaughterfiends and 4 berserkers may be a problem for the opponent.  

I cannot help but think that the whole transport option of the slaughterfiend is so 40K. Especially this line of "whole units of Berzerkers will attempt to clamber onto a nearby Slaughterfiend" appears almost happhazard and when preceded with "Competition to ride such beasts is fierce and few will succeed", it appears that the majority do not succeed.

When a failed attempt to hop on a transport means death in Epic, that is a pretty serious deal (if making it a dangerous terrain test) and spending those points then becomes a serious liability.

Also the speed of the Slaughterfiend not decreasing when heaped upon by 7-8 pumped up and armoured Berserkers (giants amongst normal men), seems a little childish to me as well.

So, it will be up for discussion as it is clear that the Transport proposal or Slaughterfiends as BL suggested has never been playtested for Epic.




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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:25 am 
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So, it will be up for discussion as it is clear that the Transport proposal or Slaughterfiends as BL suggested has never been playtested for Epic

Hence my reasoning for including them in my next list adjustment. Once fearless is removed though the cost of zerkers can come down somewhat and warbands will also get cheaper so there'll be a trade off in points.

I have considered the removal of the DTT though. It could be argued that the binding to will is done pre-game etc. This is likely how I will implement it, now I think on it. Epic is more abstract so it doesn't need so much detail for units.

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:42 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 26 Aug. 2009, 11:25 )

I have considered the removal of the DTT though. It could be argued that the binding to will is done pre-game etc. This is likely how I will implement it, now I think on it. Epic is more abstract so it doesn't need so much detail for units.

Agreed  :agree:

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:46 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 26 Aug. 2009, 11:25 )

Once fearless is removed though the cost of zerkers can come down somewhat and warbands will also get cheaper so there'll be a trade off in points.

You are only talking about 50-75 points off a unit of 8 I would think, however with your proposal being an effective CC measure, the discount in price may even be as little as 35-50 points total.

Just be aware of that as well. The cheaper units may allow more upgrades, but rarely an additional unit. Just my view.

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:49 am 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 26 Aug. 2009, 11:02 )

"whole units of Berzerkers will attempt to clamber onto a nearby Slaughterfiend"

I take it by the singularity of the slaughterfiend and the unit that the Transport capacity for Epic purposes would be 2 stands (?)

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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:01 am 
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Straight from Apocalypse Reload:

Slaughterfiend Bloodpack
Bought as a unit of 3+

Blood Ride

"A squad of Khorne Berserkers that starts it's shooting phase within 2" of a slaughterfiend may, instead of shooting or running, clamber onto it, hanging onto the daemon Engine with chainaxes and hooks. The squad is moved the same distance as the Slaughterfiend's run move.......Berzerkers may the assault.....are not considered to have boarded a transport, they merely hang on temporarily and then jump off again..."

It then talks about the Slaughterthirst incorporating the Dangerous terrain test if it does a flat out run.

So in this regard, I would translate this to be:

Slaughterfiend: Transport 2
If the slaughterfiend elects to use it's Infiltrator ability on a charge, any transported units will have to make a Dangerous terrain test.

In this respect, you can still use it for the 20cm movement, or go the 40cm charge with a DTT. I think that is a fair translation. What do others think?




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Dobbsy
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:32 am 
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I take it by the singularity of the slaughterfiend and the unit that the Transport capacity for Epic purposes would be 2 stands (?)

No, my upgrade(and formation) is 1 zerker unit (5 marines) per 'fiend. I added the one fiend to the champ unit mainly for fluff but also a bit of a boost in formation numbers and more CC goodness.

My formation is 4 zerkers on 4 'fiends.
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frogbear
 Post subject: World Eaters List - Be Scared!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:39 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 26 Aug. 2009, 12:32 )

I take it by the singularity of the slaughterfiend and the unit that the Transport capacity for Epic purposes would be 2 stands (?)

No, my upgrade(and formation) is 1 zerker unit (5 marines) per 'fiend. I added the one fiend to the champ unit mainly for fluff but also a bit of a boost in formation numbers and more CC goodness.

My formation is 4 zerkers on 4 'fiends.

Would there be any problem with having you adopt Transport 2?

Two reasons:

1. It meets the fluff (1 unit of berzerkers would naturally be 8 men or two stands in Epic)
2. To keep the unit consistent across lists

I can work it with 1 myself, but two gives more breadth for change later down the track. Also it would not effect that unit you mentioned.

Update: Sizes of Chaos Marine units in 40k are 5-10 models. If you are seriously considering these as an addition, Transport 2 would definately be right. That is what this list will go with.




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