Hi folks.

I have read all the discussion on my previous proposal and based on that I did some thinking and would like to present an adjusted version, taking into account the feedback on the last idea.

New Titan Legion Ideas

Battle Titans
Emperor 1250
Warlord 800
Reaver 650

Scout Titans
Warhound Pack 500
Warhound 275

1 Scout Titan Choice per Warlord or Emperor Titan
1 Warhound Pack per Reaver Titan
1 Support Formation per Titan

Support Changes
Change restriction on Skitarii to 0-1 per Battle Titan. (Optional idea, not critical)

Weapon Changes
Battle Titans may take weapons costing up to 75 points, additional weapon costs must be added to the cost of the titan.
25 points extra for third (or more) of the same weapon for Battle Titans. (Add to Warhound Tax rule)
CML up to 50 points (perhaps add the AP/AT back in).
Corvus Pod adds one additional Skitarri formation to support allocation.


So, no 2/3 limit, no changes to weapon costs, no up and down points costs.  As per the feedback so far.

Note that if you were to build a standard pattern Reaver or Warlord they would come out at the same cost as the standard patterns do in other lists.

The free weapons, I believe, are still worthwhile, as they allow greater expenditure on other more expensive weapons, while not benefiting a style based on min-maxing titan hulls with cheap/free weapons.

This system does not impact in any way any cuurently built models as no configuration is made invalid/illegal.  And should in theory actually encourage more tradtional builds (as it now makes sense, points-wise to have a couple of "light" or "scout" weapons and one larger "support" weapon.  Examples include the Blitz guard Reaver with QC/CCW/CLP, an anti-tank/WE Reaver with TLD/PBG/VC, and for the really old-school types the old "Nemesis" class Warlord might actually be quite decent (2xMRL/2xVC).

In addition the slightly higher hull costs and selection system should help mitigate the kind of TL lists that TRC and I have raised concerns over.

The CML change is a direct result of our playtesting.  At 25 points for AA it is almost a no-brainer to spend any "spare" points on virtually unsuppressable AA.  At 50 points is it more comparable to adding a hydra (but far more durable!).

Thoughts?

Um, I don't know if what you mean is actually what you wrote. I'm assuming you meant to say Battle Titans may take the first 75pts worth of weapons for free, based on your increasing the individual titans' base cost by 75pts.

Yes, the first 75 points being "built in" to the cost of the hull.

You are correct I should have made that clear, rather than deductable from the "additional weapon costs must be added." part.

Was there a specific overpowered weapon combo that this is meant to address?

The reasoning is the same as the Warhound "rule".

It is more powerful to have specialised weapon loads than mixed weapon loads.  This puts a small cost on doing that which should keep those from becoming the de facto choices every time.

In practice I think it would mainly affect Warlord builds such as 3xTLD/? and 3xMRL/CLP.  The book Warlord would often be better with the Gatling Blaster swapped for another TLD.

Battle Titans
Warlord 800
Reaver 650
Weapon Changes
=====
Battle Titans may take weapons costing up to 75 points, additional weapon costs must be added to the cost of the titan.

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So the core of your idea is that if a Titan's cost is cheaper than 650 or 800pts, its price is automatically raised to 650 or 800 points.

I would still rather see a rule to the style of : "A Reaver Titan may only take 1 Free weapon, and a Warlord Titan may only take 2 Free weapons", rather than have 'fuzzy' points costs. Largely the same result, but no possible configuration is every going to be clearly inferior to another configuration that costs the same ammount of points.

Your points cost proposal is not clearly 'WYSIWYG'. It is, for lack of a better descriptor, 'fuzzy'.

I would point out that a system limiting the number of free weapons is more restrictive, especially in regard to existing models.

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Your points cost proposal is not clearly 'WYSIWYG'. It is, for lack of a better descriptor, 'fuzzy'.

I don't see the need to up the cost of the warlord when the issue at hand is the warhound/reaver combo. I also don't see the point in complicating the process by upping costs and then giving "free" weapons to the amount the hulls went up. Allowing reavers only warhound pack and warlords singles seems a bit arbitrary as there doesn't appear to be any reason than reduce activations behind the limit and I think with the boosted reaver hull cost taking singles or packs shouldn't cause issues. Again with the boosted reaver hull cost I don't think bumping the CML to 50 is necessary since under the reaver/warhound list that is seen as problematic would see a drop in activations and only have points free for one cml or other upgrade in 3k. Even with the prospect of limiting AA in the AMTL list, I think that's a tad harsh.

Just make the Reaver hull 650 and maybe limit it to one scout titan formation (single or pack) per battle titan and keep it in the support slot as it is now.

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-Vaaish

I don't see the need to up the cost of the warlord when the issue at hand is the warhound/reaver combo.

No, not in the same way.


Few people seem to have actively gone out and modelled Warlords carrying 4x Vulcan Megabolters, or similar.

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The point is to prevent/discourage the min-maxing of titan hulls via the free weapons.  Without actually banning any config at all.

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-Vaaish

I'd rather not have it done by pigeonholing me into taking x points of weapons. I think you can reduce the effectiveness of a min/maxed list by simply bumping up the base cost of the reaver hull and adjusting the limits on warhounds without going into all this extra complexity.

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No, not in the same way.