I see this as a very interesting proposal.

Thoughts gentlemen?

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-Vaaish

I agree with Vaaish. It does seem like a good idea, but I have a feeling it would have the consequences Vaaish mentions, as well as other unforeseen ones.

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I think it would be acceptable to have a modified BTS rule in play for WE heavy armies. But, I have no idea if that will be enough to make them balanced in tourney play.

If the tourney objectives can be fairly adjusted to allow an all WE list (specifically, an all battle titan list), then the AMTL list would probably have to be modified to strip out most of the low cost activations.

What objectives are particularly difficult to acheive when fighting against an AMTL list? What objectives are particularly hard to acheive when fighting as an AMTL list?

Looking at the objective lists, the only ones that jump out at me are the BTS when fighting against, and the blitz and DTF when fighting as. I think OGBM gets around the DTF problem with the grotz rule.

I'm not sure it'll be easy for Marines and Orks to overwhelm a single Reaver - sure IG and Eldar could do it, but then they could kill a Warlord relatively easily too.

Marines will still struggle against a Reaver; but at least they could kill one with enough focus - but a Warlord would be a different matter.

I see it as a good way of boosting SM/Orks vs AMTL, without weakening AMTL against Eldar and IG.


Question: Why do you think it would lead to a change in weaponry choices? (and would that matter, or would other armies just change tactics to respond?)

I have to say I'd be happy to see a CC/FF monstrosity charging forward while the rest hung back. Focus everything on killing it, get BTS, and with no others in my half of the table, the game's going my way... or ignore it, and use high-speed moves to Blitz, and maybe send fliers after one of those lonely long-range Reavers at the back...

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the orks i face have zero problems knocking down a reaver, all them damn oddboyz and AT6+ shots add up quickly.

the special BTS proposal is actual intriguing. i would move to have EnC and other more prominant members of the board look over that.

i would move to have EnC and other more prominant members of the board look over that.

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Question: Why do you think it would lead to a change in weaponry choices? (and would that matter, or would other armies just change tactics to respond?)

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-Vaaish

The proposal to get the bts if any titan is killed is very good , it also make  less good take several lonely warhound to increase activation. yes i think is a good idea

lillith the proposal isn't any titan killed, just battle titans which excludes getting BTS from a warhounds death.

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-Vaaish

i move to make all battle and emperor class titans a BTS goal. this makes both the casual gamer (me) happy and most likely most of the tourney players who feel stymied by all these war engines and void shields.

But then doesn't this just mean you have to alter tactics to adapt? At the end of the day, every army configuration requires a different response.

I confess, I've not played against a CC/FF tooled up AMTL; but again I think it's only Marines and Ferals that will have a real problem. And Marines can always take a Reaver or Warlord of their own...

I accept that the situation you outline above could well be an outcome of changing the AMTL's BTS rule; but even if it was, my Marine army would sooner have that than face an Emperor Titan as the BTS!

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Marines can always take a Reaver or Warlord of their own...

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I'll give you that a reaver is a more inviting target for BTS than an emperor.

Yes you can adapt, but it's forcing a much more defensive play style on the AMTL list and I see if being especially problematic against enemies like IG and Eldar that are more than capable of securing the BTS this way without too much effort. I don't think any of the objectives should be a given when fighting against a particular army.

For reference, a reaver with 2 lasburners and a CCW has 17 CC 3+ attack, three of which are TK or roughly 9.24 regular hits and 2 TK hits on CC which really isn't kind on practically anything assaulting it to avoid shields.

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-Vaaish

The whole point of the army lists is for tournament play. If that is honestly the attitude I am not surprised the various groups go off and do their own lists.

The fact is Titan lists aren't currently allowed in most Tournaments so current Tournament lists aren't designed with the possibility of facing them. If you allow a Titan list into a Tournamant then the other lists should alter to take account of the fact that they may face a list with only WE's.

Players simply haven't had time to adjust and form strategies and if you assume the best players and lists win tournaments then without getting Titan lists in a tournament you won't see general tournament lists designed to cope with Titan lists.

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I see where you are coming from Vaaish, but I am not convinced.

Leaving the Battle titans in the rear will tend to scatter the AMTL forces unless they are also 'defensive' which may make it easier for the opponent to gain his other objectives (TSNP, Defend Flag and T&H). So the limited numbers of AMTL fomations should limit this particular tactic, while encouraging the AMTL to play a little more cautiously. It is certainly worth giving it a try.

Both the "wall of titans" and the latest BTS idea depend greatly on the strategies and weaponry of both sides. The usual way of stopping the AMTL is to try to destroy all the small activations, increasing the activation advantage to the point where you can then concentrate the majority of the army against each battle titan in turn - ideally isolating them in the process. The AMTL generally work best where they stay in compact, mutually supporting groups to beat off assaults, while using their superior firepower and armour to destroy enemy formations in long-range duels. So far, the list seems to encourage these styles of play while avoiding the extremes.

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