Thank you for providing those links Onyx.  It is so easy to miss out of sections of development when you don't look at a forum for a while.

E&C I couldn't help noticing that at the end of the poll on weapon restrictions you finished by agreeing with Nealhunt that they weren't the way to go.  And as Onyx points out the poll seemed to be against the idea.

(Please note that I personally, wouldn't have minded that system.  But that does take into account that I would not have had any models invalidated by it, as none of my titans break those rules, partly becuase most of them are not glued.)

@Onyx.  The Legate suggestion was an attempt to help the internal balance between Warlords and Reavers.  I would note that this poll was far less decisive in its decision making than the other, with several "experienced players" objecting.
[Tiny-Tim)
I've voted no, my tournament head is screaming out to let this happen, but the saving in cost could allow for an extra activation which can be vital in a tournament situation.

I can live with the cost of the rulebook configuration Warlords and Reavers being slightly different to the points costs paid by SM/IG armies. But 75 points difference seems to be excessive- I can live with 25 points but not more.

I also think we should be able to field an all-titan list with AMTL. For me the whole point of the list is to play with the toys which can be tough to squeeze into SM/IG 3k lists. Thus I don't want to be forced into taking support formations. Support formations should be a (limited) option but not complusory.

In the games I have played against Kleomenes we did not feel that the current AMTL list was overpowered. We have had pretty even numbers of wins and losses playing with/against AMTL. However I accept that we don't tend to min/max our lists.

I would hope that the 3 Reaver + 4 Warhound list would be effective in 3k games. If the consensus is that it is too powerful for tournaments then I could live with slight points increases for Reaver chasis. But please don't prevent it by adding in 2/3 limit on Titans.

Cheers

James

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It would be a fairly neat approach, except that three Reavers with only one 25pt weapon each would still allow room for four Warhounds with 100points left over. So that wouldn't fix this particular issue.

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True, not entirely. But that list would be forced to either do without a Supreme Commander, or without any AA:

King Reaver, 600 + Legate (50) = 650
2 x Reaver @ 600 = 1200
Warhound Pack = 500
Single Warhound = 275
Single Warhound = 275
Sentinels = 100
Total - 3000

You would have to drop the Legate (so no Supreme Commander) or put the two single warhounds together (so less activations) in order to fit any AA into the list. So while it still allows the 3 reaver 4 Hound list, it forces additional weaknesses onto it. It certainly doesn't fix everything, but it does effectively add 25 points for each discount reaver, which helps to limit other options.

I like having the MRL on the Reaver's carapace mount because I think it looks cool. So if I am reading your suggestion right I could nt take such a Reaver with either paired TLD or paired plasmablastgun?

Cheers

James

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The MRL is a 25 point weapon in the current AMTL list, as is the TLD. So either configuration would be fine. The first has no free weapons, and the second has 2 (the Plasma Blastguns).

Don't prevent it? Surely if it is too good you would have to prevent it? Whether its making the 4 warhound be two packs or cutting their numbers down or.

Incidentally the 2/3's limit on titans works ok with the current costings if you remove the Emperor from the list. Are you just dead set against having 1/3 of the list not be titans? (Could equally ask how you feel about 1/3 of marine and chaos lists being We and navy!)

Personally I have no problems with a 1/3 of the list being support. Indeed it matches somewhat the more varied OGBM.

This is I think Clauswitzs suggestion, hope I haven't misrepresented it.

Edit - Got the Infantry bit slightly wrong it seems.

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I think you upgrades section has suffered some formatting errors chris.

I'm pretty sure a Sacred Icon doesn't give 2 x AA5+ shots!

Well, rating the Plasma Blastgun at the same price as the Plasma Cannon (with similar comparisons available for the inferno gun and megabolter) is a less than perfect solution, IMO.

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Going with the free weapon costings only the inferno is really a problem as the old VMB and PGB can pass as gatling cannon and plasma cannon easily. And I'm not worried by paired infernos as they stand up ok.

Otherwise you have the somwhat more complex 2 weapons tax system which tries to make those weapons worth taking, which of course there falls down on the fact its the same cost to have a triple TLD and normal as it is twin TLD.

Really hate the TLD

It should cost 10 points more than the other weapons in its band!


My cut and paste skills are poor.

Typos -
Yeah yeah yeah You know what I mean!

This is the 2/3 structure applied to the current weapon costings.

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Then make it so!  

And add some other "odd point value" options to compensate.

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why am i paying for my lysander fighter now?

this idea of forcing me to take non titan units is not an idea i like. in my standard 5000 point games thats means i have to devote ~1700 points to non titan formations, i dont think i own that many formations.

Really hate the TLD

It should cost 10 points more than the other weapons in its band!

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If the Marine list required that it could only be composed of 2/3 Space Marine formations, then I would be fairly unimpressed.

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I am completely against limiting the AMTL list to 2/3 titans. If you do that why bother with it and just up the support limit on the skitarri list to 2/3 and be done. This is the AdMech TITAN legions, not the AdMech MOSTLY TITAN legions. Right now these suggestions seem to be flying further and further from any reasoned approach to fixing the perceived issue.

I think that before anything goes into limiting weapons slots or creating arbitrary force composition ceilings, some of the smaller changes should be investigated. Perhaps just bumping the cost of the Reaver chassis 25-50 points and/or tacking on a line that says all battle titans must be armed with at least one battle titan grade weapon.

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