Gentlemen,
I have read many different 'discussions' and lots of opinions. I would point out that synergy is the ENTIRE aspect of epic that differentiates it from 40K. In fact the use of synergistic operations of units is taught in a very pointed manner by the system.

I believe Honda is trying to establish a basic foundation (base line has been mentioned), and indicated that the current 5.1 list is the departure point not destination. This cannibalism over the bits that form the army is misplaced. The task ahead is to use the given list to TEST that particular 'stripped down' list to receive some feed back. Then to add or adjust items to bring the list more into line with our EXPECTATIONS.

Do I like the current list 5.1? I would prefer something different. I am no stranger to the position Honda is defending having developed and championed a new list in another game format. The problems of nattering back and forth over this or that caused by individuals that hypothesized the end of the world without actually playing the list.

When you finally get down to it, they are your 'toys'. No game police will be in attendance of your local games. You can play it any way you want it, as long as the lads on the other side agree. However there are two solutions to the problem before us if you wish to particiapte where the game police will be present. 1. work together in the process toward an 'accepted list'. 2. Enjoy playing another army in your Epic tourneys, cause Tau will be 'non-official'

Bear

Just going through your list in detail Ben and I'm amused at how similar some of it is when you factor in the markerlights

Anyway - Skyrays - you have made their missiles guided? So can only fire if target is lit? Thats essentially the same AA value, but a reduction in coverage. I see how they can't stay the same as it would be a 2x4+/5+. How about instead they go to twin missiles, AA4+. Same performance if the target is marked, but only a slight reduction if it isn't?

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

In regards to firewarrior/tank how about this.
Fire warrior list - standard Tau force from a sept.
Armour - list fielded by colonies and farsight enclave. Firewarriors are in short supply through attrition so instead human auxaries are used for basic infantry duties and LVs and AV's for fighting units.

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Question: Is the change in ML and guided missiles designed to give a boost to non-missile weapons?  There may be an answer in 15 pages of thread but my eyes started to gloss over; if somebody can save me the headache I'd appreciate it.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Mosc: It gives a boost to some weapons, and others stay the same (assuming they are lit).

Overall shooting power is slightly lower than 5.1 when not MLed, but noticably higher when firing at MLed targets.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Yep that's largely the point of the proposal... keep most of the stats the same, improve a very few, but make it so the play style rewards movement and synergy by making Markerlights really useful for all the army.

Anyway - Skyrays - you have made their missiles guided? So can only fire if target is lit? Thats essentially the same AA value, but a reduction in coverage. I see how they can't stay the same as it would be a 2x4+/5+. How about instead they go to twin missiles, AA4+. Same performance if the target is marked, but only a slight reduction if it isn't?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

The Farsight Enclave is known for their greater use of Crisis Suits, rather than usage of tanks. IIRC they're supposed to be quite short on tanks / large tech. in general, because the core worlds have cut them off from resupply.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well, just colonies then

So as I understand it the list is currently +1 to hit but not against aircraft, or for aircraft? 'Aircraft may not receive a +1 bonus to their attack rolls for having a Markerlit enemy if they are making anti-aircraft attacks.' Which does get around the AA values being 6 on some of their attacks

I do think after my abortive test and reading it a bit more that a straight 'the firing unit may get +1 to hit for AP or +1 to hit for AT' is as simple and introduces a bit more thought, plus it helps mech formations that the tau are good at otherwise shredding (those short range IC weapons and high to hits) whilst penalising all those mono type formations out there. More importantly it leaves AA alone. A side effect is that if you go back to AT5+ for GM's you can have quite a scary gm barrage at AT3+ on sustain. Whether or not thats god I leave to others, but it certainly highlights these weapons for the GM lovers out there!

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Overall shooting power is slightly lower than 5.1 when not MLed, but noticably higher when firing at MLed targets.

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It's as true today as when I started adventuring: "When in doubt, set something on fire"

A side effect is that if you go back to AT5+ for GM's you can have quite a scary gm barrage at AT3+ on sustain.

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To my understanding you can't sustain in addition to the benefits of the Markerlight.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I've been trying to make various lists up for this, but I come down to needing at least 25% and to be honest about 33% of the army made up of markerlight formations. Note this is even if I play with a Manta having a markerlight (it should - no pathfinders when you attack enemy capitol ships!) though obviously here it drops tot he low end of things.

So I guess it comes down to - should a Tau list have to have so many markerlight formations?

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

So I guess it comes down to - should a Tau list have to have so many markerlight formations?

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It's as true today as when I started adventuring: "When in doubt, set something on fire"

While Tau use them extensively, I don't think that markerlight carrier's position (with their silent and long range weapon, that can be fired from hiding) is so half-suicidal as it seems to be in epic, which is, for me personally, a greatest deterrent to use them. I just don't see sacrificing my warriors without any chance of survival as a proper tau-way, even if war losses are unavoidable.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I believe this is a significant feature of the proposal that people may be missing/glossing over.

If a *single* enemy unit is in range of a Markerlight, the *entire* enemy formation is "lit", this tends to "stretch" Markerlight range so that those forward Tau formations don't have to expose themselves quite as much as in v5.1.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

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