There has been talk of a DC3 Brass Scorpion as E&C mentions here:

OOP Epic model - AV sized model. "Brass Scorpion"
40k recommended conversion made from 3x Defiler kits - 2DC War Engine "Brass Scorpion"
Forgeworld model - 3DC War Engine "Elder Brass Scorpion"

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The DC3 "Elder/Greater" Brass Scorpion is rumoured to be in Imperial Armour 7, The Siege of Vraks 3. The FW model represents it.
Only difference to the DC2 Brass Scorpion found in WH40k Apocalypse seems to be that it has DC3 and more shots with its Scorpion Cannon, making its Scorpion Cannon a shorter ranged Vulcan Megabolter.

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Thanks BL

So would this be representative of the D3 Brass Scorpion?

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Greater Scorpion

Type Speed Armour Close Combat Fire fight
WE   20cm    5+      3+             3+

Weapons            Range               Firepower           Notes
Scorpion Mega Cannon  45cm                4x AP3+/AT5+        -
Hellmaw Cannon        15cm                AP4+                Ignore Cover
Demolisher Cannon     30cm                AP3+/AT4+           Ignore Cover
Claws              Base Contact        Assault Weapon      MW, Extra Attack (+1)

Notes: DC2, Infiltrator, Invulnerable Save, Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Walker

Critical Hit Effect: The Brass Scorpion’s reactor explodes. The Brass Scorpion is destroyed and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 4.

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If so, would you say that the critical effect is apprpriate for the DC3 version or should it be more like the warhound:

The Greater Scorpion is caught off-balance and staggers. Move it D6cm in a random direction. If this move takes the Greater Scorpion into impassable terrain or another unit it can’t move over then it stops when it contacts the obstruction and suffers an extra point of damage. If it staggers into or over any units then they will take a hit on a D6 roll of 6+ (make saving throws for the units normally)

Also, is the Armour Save appropriate at 5+?

So what points value is an extra DC, differing critical, and extra weapon worth? At the moment the DC2 are 2 for 250 points.

Thanks

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The Scorpion "Mega" Cannon should retain its 30cm range. The rumours don't speak of an increased range, only of more shots (15 shots instead of 10 shots).

The Apocalypse Brass Scorpion has Armour values of 13/13/10 which is better as a Predator (Armour 4+). Reinforced Armour 5+ is only slighty better so fits the Brass Scorpion.

No staggering for the critical because the Brass Scorpion stand much more firmly on his multiple legs than a Warhound on his two long legs.

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So if you critical the DC3 scorpion, it goes BOOM!

ok

So anyone help on what the extra shots and the extra DC should be worth in points?

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Just curious as to the current Brass Scorpion design.

Are people aware that it was actually the Jaw Gun that had the range and not the Scorpion Cannon?

Or was this changed in some rule that I am unaware of?

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Hena

I think the discussion is what stat the DC3 scorpion will have and it's cost. It appears that everytime FW wants to make money, they make something new and the Epic Community seem to follow along like good little puppy dogs. Whether that is the right thing to do however is another discussion.  

What I am seeking is clarification on 2 things:

1. The weapons for the Brass Scorpion are related different in the old datasheets than what we now have (the jaw gun now being of shorter range than the tail cannon[?]) when it used to be the other way around. Just wondering whether I have missed a newer stat line between the old epic and FW's release.

2. What is the extra cost of a DC3 Brass Scorpion with 2 extra dice of shooting?

Whether we have 1 or even 3 different variants, it would be good to get in now and generate the points for these so then we can make a decision. Having only the DC2 (and the Daemon Assault Engine version in a fanlist), does not really assist much when there is a discussion of the DC3 being made up.  

Personally, I would like to be playtesting for the future, rather than with stats that are set to be changed as soon as FW realise they need money for their Christmas bonuses  

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OK

No-one seems to be coming to the party on this one so I am going to make some observations myself based on the below profile:

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Greater Brass Scorpion

Type Speed Armour Close Combat Fire fight
WE   20cm    5+      3+             3+

Weapons                Range               Firepower           Notes
Hellmaw Mega Cannon     30cm                4x AP3+/AT5+        -
Scorpion Cannon         15cm                AP4+                Ignore Cover
Demolisher Cannon       30cm                AP3+/AT4+           Ignore Cover
Claws                   Base Contact        Assault Weapon      MW, Extra Attack (+1)

Notes: DC3, Infiltrator, Invulnerable Save, Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Walker

Critical Hit Effect: The Brass Scorpion’s reactor explodes. The Brass Scorpion is destroyed and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 4.

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The Imperial Warhound and the DC3 Brass Scorpion could be considered similar. They both share the abilities of DC 3, Fearless, Reinforced Armour, Walker, & same amount (number) of shooting attacks.

Imperial Warhound has these benefits: 2 Void Shields, Extra 10cm move, longer range weapons, Less chance of dying on a critical.

Greater Brass Scorpion has these benefits: Infiltrator, Invulnerable Save, CC MW Assault Weapon, better CC & FF

So in comparrison, they fullfil different roles yet I would think have similar impacts in a battle. Due to this I would think that the costs would also be similar or the same.

A Warhound is currently 275 points (2008 change version) so I am thinking of pricing the above datasheet at the same cost or slightly lower due to the critical effect being an 'all or nothing'.

This does however bring up the dilemna of the current Brass Scorpion in the Red Corsairs list priced at 2 for 250 points for 1 less DC and 2 less shots. Now I am still unsure on costing, but is that just too cheap?

BL, as the Red Corsairs champion, I would love your input on this as well

Anyone else that could also critique the comparrison?

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I'd recommend just sticking with the 2 DC version for now. If/when 40k rules are released for the rumoured 3DC version, we can worry about it then.

The 2 DC version is the only one with current 40k stats, as well as being the one "in the middle", so it can semi-reasonably represent either the old Epic model, a crabbe conversion or a scratchbuild of the new FW design.

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Sorry I was too busy to make it to your party and answer your question.

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Ok

That is fair enough. Then is the price of 2xDc2 Brass Scorpions for 250 not too cheap then?

2 of those scorpions can do more than 1 Warhound and for less points.    

Sorry if I keep beating this 'dead horse' but I am trying to understand the reasoning behind the point cost that was developed for this unit.

Thanks

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2 of those scorpions can do more than 1 Warhound and for less points.  

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With 2DC, and no shields they're much, much easier to kill than warhounds, and with a max of 30cm ranged shooting and only 20cm movement they're much less shooty and manouverable too. All they're really good at are engagements, and they're only about as good as a couple of defilers.

I recommended 150 points each originally (that being the cost of 2 defilers, to which they are roughly equivilent), so 250 for two may be a little cheap.

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Ypui got the Maw Cannon and ScortpionCannon cifused. Here the fixed stats:

Greater Brass Scorpion
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
WE   20cm    5+      3+             3+

Weapons                Range               Firepower           Notes
Scorpion Mega Cannon     30cm                4x AP3+/AT5+        -
Hellmaw Cannon          15cm                AP4+                Ignore Cover
Demolisher Cannon       30cm                AP3+/AT4+           Ignore Cover
Claws                   Base Contact        Assault Weapon      MW, Extra Attack (+1)

Notes: Infiltrator, Invulnerable Save, Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Walker

Damage Capacity 3. Critical Hit Effect: The Brass Scorpion’s reactor explodes. The Brass Scorpion is destroyed and any units within 5cm of the model suffer a hit on a D6 roll of 4.
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Soo. An idea: How about let the World Eaters only use the "Lesser" and "Greater" Brass Scorpion and let the "Medium" Brass Scorpion only be available to Red Corsairs, etc?
The Medium Brass Scorpion is something like "take two Defilers and build something new" while the Greater Brass Scorpion seems to be an design of its own, something which is forged in the Eye of Terror.

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