So this afternoon I re-read IA3 Taros to re-familiarize myself again with Tau way of thought. Although the book is quite painful to read at times because of the lack of any editing, it does represent one of most concise tomes on Tau warfare. If you do have it in your possession, I would consider giving it a read sometime soon.

I have read this book something on the order of 10-15 times, cover to cover, and yet, every now and then I see some nugget that I could have sworn was not there before.

As you are all aware of, there are a couple of strong opinions on how the list should go, whether the existing version works, should we just tank everything, go witht the new proposal, blah, blah, blah. We've generated a lot of energy (positive and negative), burned a lot of calories over the years, lost players, in general not made the progress that the community deserves.

I decided to look at things from the freshest perspective as I can, given all the history I have with the Epic Tau and see what I understand and more importantly, what can we do to move forward.

So I decided to start with the basics. How do the Tau fight?

1. The Tau have two approaches to warfare, Mont'ka and Kauyon

The first is referred to as the Killing Blow, the second as the Patient Hunter. The first approach seeks to strike a blow that the enemy cannot recover from, the second to cause attrition to the enemy until they cannot respond. The Tau switch back and forth between the two approaches whenever they need to. "The" Tau list will feature both styles and allow for playing both in the same game. I say that because as I was brain-storming last night I briefly considered the possibility of a Mont'ka list and a Kauyon list. But I discarded that thought as I didn't think it was really workable.

2. The Tau do not approach warfare from the same perspective as other races

To me, this means that the Tau don't do what other races do. Pure and simple. Well, what do other races do? At least in the 40K universe, casualties don't really matter. Oh, they (game designers) might try to give you the impression that they do, but in reality, the overall numbers are so big, individuals don't matter. That means attrition is an acceptable way of conducting war.

Not to the Tau. They are not that prolific yet and in fact, if the Imperium, or anyone else for that matter really wanted them gone, they could make that happen. The Tau currently do not have the resources to fight a long (i.e. decades/centuries) struggle. Resources are important to them. Seeking low hanging fruit is important to them. Standing up in the face of massive forces and hanging tough is not.

So attrition is out. Precision is in. Localized power is in.

3. The Fire Caste is fairly content with their inventory of weapons, until they run into something they really can't handle.

In the Damocles Campaign, the brute force way of fighting war in some ways, caught them by surprise. What is interesting is that instead of adopting the Imperial model, they modified their model. So, when faced with super heavy tanks and Titans, they didn't build the equivalent, they used produced an asymmetric solution. Not only that, but it wasn't the Fire Caste that came up with the solution, it was the Air Caste.

Is it possible that the Fire Caste are somewhat set in their ways? I can only postulate, but it does seem possible.

So if that assumption were true, then that would mean that newer, non-conventional types of weaponry, at least on vehicular scale, would seem to come from the Air Caste vs. the Fire Caste.

So what does that mean?

That means that from an inventory of units and formations, what we "should" see as far as weaponry, should come from the existing palette of vehicles. Some of this is obvious, but needs to be stated:

1. The main battle tank is based on the Hammerhead (regardless of the turret weaponry)
2. The infantry fighting vehicle is based on the Devilfish
3. There are no massive blast inducing weapons outside of what comes in #1 & #2 (precision)
4. GM/MLs should be an equivalently strengthed approach to conducting war (precision)
5. Extraordinary weapons are from the Air Caste (AX-1-0, Manta)
6. Drones are soldiers, not mindless automata. They should not be wasted (Attrition)

There's probably a few others that could be listed, but for the purposes of this post, that will work. We can discuss what those others are.

Now, that's a long way to get to the point where I want to discuss breaking the logjam. Yesterday, I postulated that from E&C's proposal, that we were within striking distance of working through the issues, but that there was one snag, the Scorpionfish.

After thinking through this, reading, thinking though it again, I think I have an idea on what the solution could be.

While I was reading the Tigershark entry (around page 200), there is mention of a TS variant that is armed with burst cannon and seekers. So, I let that sort of float downstream a little and realized that could be the solution.

I think that one of the reasons I think the Scorpionfish is necessary, is because of the need that it addresses. Even in 40K, GW has added "capabilities" to the Tau that allow them Scorpionfish like abilities, without adding the vehicle. E&C was correct when he stated that it was a flyer. Now I could extrapolate and build in the ability to hover, but let's just say that I don't. Also by making the Scorpionfish a ground unit, it is part of the Fire Caste. A Tigershark would be Air Caste.

So, I am first off interested in seeing if we, in general, can agree with the points on Tau warfare. Secondly, the Tigershark missile boat (for lack of a better name). What could this look like, stats-wise? We can fiddle with the cost once we know what it does.

I have also come to the opinion that drone formations should be able to deep strike/teleport based on how they are used from the standard Tigershark. That would get them operating as described in IA-3.

So, thoughts and comments?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Seems like an interesting theory Honda. Are you willing to entertain more out-of-the-box ideas with this?

What is interesting is that instead of adopting the Imperial model, they modified their model. So, when faced with super heavy tanks and Titans, they didn't build the equivalent, they used produced an asymmetric solution

I have ... come to the opinion that drone formations should be able to deep strike/teleport based on how they are used from the standard Tigershark. That would get them operating as described in IA-3.

So, thoughts and comments?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Costing differently would not be nessesary if you wanted to put in the other Hammerhead variants, IMHO.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

*cough burst cannon Hammerhead....?

I'd rather not divert this thread into debating how good each type of Hammerhead is, but in the context of the Tau army list I've proposed the Burst Cannon Hammerhead is great, the reason being that instead of having to spend 100pts to get a Stingray, you can swap out one or more Hammerheads and have an organic AA capacity... plus a respectable (if short ranged) AP attack that could be well see use during the battle.

Yeah its basic stats look poor, but the element that the Burst Cannon Hammerhead would bring to a Hammerhead formation is powerful, if largely defensive, and frees up 100pts to use elsewhere.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

fair enough. back on topic now.

when faced with super heavy tanks and Titans, they didn't build the equivalent, they used produced an asymmetric solution. Not only that, but it wasn't the Fire Caste that came up with the solution, it was the Air Caste.

Regarding Hammerhead variants – perhaps in a tank list, but they really don’t all need to be represented in the standard epic Tau list – doesn’t happen with most of the IG tank variants or Eldar Wave Serpents say.

I quite like the idea of a short ranged MW one, I think it possibly has the strongest case of them to be added to the list. Perhaps it could be a 30cm range MW as both the Plasma Cannon and Fusion Cannon would likely have that effect and that would be the abstracted average of their ranges (24" and 48").

I think an AA Burst Cannon is a bad idea, the W40k one has no AA attack and the weapons fire arcs are limited and forwards pointing on the model (I used to own one of the FW Hammerhead turret variants myself). Leave AA to the Skyrays - despite their cost – or aircraft.

Note that the only Hammerhead variant I have seriously proposed for the core list is the Fusion Cannon Hammerhead, as it does bring a unique new niche to the army list, as well as filling a capability gap left by the move of the Scorpionfish to the Armoured list.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

A couple of quick thoughts:

1. I'm not going to say no to Remora's, but I am going to say not now. I think we are on the cusp of getting to something significant and that could become a distraction. So let's leave it off the table for right now. There will be plenty of other things to focus on.

2. Tigershark Missile Boat - There is no need for a model, the Tigershark already exists. Although the description is brief, the implication is that the drone racks are replaced with seekers. Let's look at it from that perspective.

3. I'm fine with changing the GM rule to Seeker Missiles.

4. I'm still undecided regarding the fusion HH, I would suggest that we not open up Pandora's box and focus on the core HH builds that are evidenced in the Codex. I want to avoid the "too many variables to balance" issue.

As an aside and assuming that we accept the guiding principles outlined above, then the missile battery HH would not fit in with our approach for the same reason that the Stingray does not. A missile tank does not fit with the "precision" guideline.

5. Teleporting drones. I'm Ok with them not have teleport, but we should consider giving them a similar ability as featured with assault marines. IA3 is very clear that the Tigershark's primary role is to transport boatloads of drones, seeding them in an area as a first level of response until additional forces can be marshalled. IA3 is also clear that the TS performed the interdiction role quite heavily throughout the campaign.

6. Out-of-the-box does not mean "go crazy".  

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Just to clarify.

The proposal is that we adopt E&C's 1.06 list (with a few adjustments)?

Is the "armoured" list also going to be developed "officially"?

I like this direction and (as it fits my personal vision of Tau operations)will pursue testing in this direction. So specifically, we are regarding the Tigershark as a heavy support platform(using modern US doctrine wording here). I'll even sight a real world parallel.
The Army asked for a close support aircraft that could loiter and deliver LOTS of fire power to a particular spot under tight ground control. Lots of fast mover(read jet) solutions were proposed, the winner was a DC-3 transport with 4 miniguns sticking out of the side, lots of bang, lots of flying time, ease of control and not the expected solution. A solution created by the US Air force to solve an Army problem.
One solution could be field the drones and Tigershark as one purchased formation. The lumbering Scorpionfish  solution for support is made moot by this solution.
The Tau may be smart enough to understand that an army that uses attrition as it's main doctrine also builds supply train for that doctrine. Lots of bodies that would be dead in any other engagement need food et al in a Tau conflict. A hungry soldier is a unhappy soldier.
Tau allow the opponent to loose, strangled by their logistic problems...

I drifted, A big yes to this proposal


Bear

Teleport with drones is a no risk idea and cheap teleporting troops often turn up turn 3 on objectives, not as interdiction or whatever. Loaded on tigersharks the longer you wait the more risk it is, as you might be shot down, delays through the TS's taking bm's etc.
Plus it detracts from the stealths.

TS missile boat. Yeah sure. It is in my mind those little drones with seekers and thats the model everyone will use anyway.

As for design check out all the aircraft design threads on the forums, the various point that are universal to aircraft in epic, especially range of attack, survivability, offence and pints and the different relationship between them than to ground units.

I had a crack at it a while ago and I made it a WE to represent the drones taking hits meant for the tigershark, with plenty of defensive 15cm AA and a brace of seekers as the armament. Tis up here somewhere.

Incidentally I thought the scorpionfish was an upgunned Orca made into a skimmer to avoid the issues relating to powerful aircraft.

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4. I'm still undecided regarding the fusion HH, I would suggest that we not open up Pandora's box and focus on the core HH builds that are evidenced in the Codex. I want to avoid the "too many variables to balance" issue