E&Cs notion this proposal could be finished and balanced in a matter of months is probably - I suspect - unrealistic, as well as possibly a little insensitive to the time and effort that has gone into the official Tau list over the years. However, for those that wish to try it out the change could be a good thing and the official Tau list could compare or learn from some things, and/or ignore it as felt appropriate

An alternative incidentally if the +1 across the board is to good is for +1AP or +1AT, choose before rolling dice. I.e. marking the vehicles or the infantry. One good thing about this is it is directly the opposite for Epic formations than normal. I.e. they do better as all AV's or all Inf to avoid weapons fire of that type. For once being in a mixed formation would be good

A further point with the drone formation (as opposed to the upgrade) is to mix heavy and light drones together, so they become a ML formation and make them so they have to start the game in the air, ready to be deployed as needed. Would give four angles for ML's. Embedded, independent(in theory the majority), garrisoned (turrets, which should be a mix of firepower and ML turrets) and deep insertion (stealths and air deployed drones).

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I could be wrong. I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again. Nobody's perfect.

However, I have confidence in this direction for the list. I have confidence that the Army Champion can galvanise the fanbase by taking this list and running with it, and with a flurry of updates to start with, and then a more sedate pace for a couple of months, I believe that this list style could be both be balanced in a reasonable time frame, and at the same time achieve the most important goal of any Epic army list: Deliver a fun, representative-style game experience.

I could be wrong. I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again. I'm not perfect.

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Hey I like the list! I'm just cautioning realistic expectations for an army as contentious as the Tau seem to be. With ongoing playtesting when is a list ever really 'finished' anyway? I'm not seeing Honda dropping his official list and adopting this, but it could run as an alternative and be explored and tested and gamed with.
TRC: with the drone formation (as opposed to the upgrade) is to mix heavy and light drones together, so they become a ML formation and make them so they have to start the game in the air, ready to be deployed as needed.

I consider the AMTL army list I was asked to develop 'finished', unless some dramatic new development takes place that proves an aspect of the list broken (as happened with the Official Space Marine army list and Scout Drop Pods, for example).

I also consider the Tau to be an easier challenge in balancing them than the AMTL was, due to the list's more conventional reliance on Infantry, Tanks etc, rather than War Engines.

I'm not seeing Honda dropping his official list and adopting this, but it could run as an alternative and be explored and tested and gamed with.

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It's really too early to tell if the proposal works well or not in practice and which aspects do or don't just yet, more tweaking and particularly playtesting for a while yet would be helpful to give it a fair trial to be able to judge it.

Well, be my guest.

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Having had a test game with E&Cs original list over the weekend, i can definately say that i'm a big fan of both markerlight scouts and the new ML rules.

I'll try and get the batrep posted today, i need to go through the pictures and all that so it'll be much later on today.

The main things i found were that Tau definately held their own and played the way i've always wanted epic Tau to (Coming from a quite successful 40K Tau tournament background) and were really very viscious when shooting.  The ability to double and shoot to full effect, once a markerlight had been brought into play was fun and really gave a sense of synergy to the list. Co-ordinated fire came into play on more than one occassion too which is quite contrary to my previous Tau experiences where i used it maybe once every 3 games.

More to come...

Way too busy just at the minute and any gaming I do for the moment will be Britcon testing (I've never played 4k epic or Eldar which I'm using so this would be wise).

After Britcon though I'd particularly like to get a game in with it, and the Krieg list, not necessarily at the same time.

New to the exchange, have we left by the wayside the ML must be present to operate GM? Synergy is a good idea, but it implies all components present. If the ML becomes the limiter for IF fire for the Tau, every IF unit the opponent has will register ML units 1st turn. They have no such limitation and will be the instrument of the removal of the opposite numbers. I have played with the 5.x.x list in a few engagements of 3000 pts. Those that understood the value of the ML exterminated them early, leaving units that could not fire even at close range, I think you call that synergy.  

Bear

Which then becomes the Tau's weakness.

Every army should have a weakness and for Tau i think it's quite cool that it is the markerlights which are also the source of their greatest strength.

I've not found it too difficult to keep the ML units alive and useful so far, although admittedly have only really had the one game with the ML changes, i'm hoping to get more in the not too distant future.

If the overall +1 to-hit for being markerlit is too powerful how about ruling that only half of the lit formation is actually markerlit or that you only receive for half the shot( rounded up) the +1 to-hit modifier?

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Personally i didn't find it too powerful and thought it about right.  My opponent agreed and admitted to making some mistakes  during our game.  It most certainly was not easy for the tau, even then.  That being said, it needs testing on more "Standard" armys than one made up of RA4+ WEs.

However, against other armies, not AMTL, the enemy will have more activations and so potential to stop ML units from getting into position and be possessed of more infantry, which dilutes some of the Tau's offensive firepower quite markedly.

In the end the game i had came down to the wire.  The markerlight bonus gives the main firepower units real punch, although they do lack any real reinforced armour, TKs or long range MWs as well as engagement power. Tau have to rely on firepower & maneuver with various different types of units to achieve the trickery they need to win a battle.  So on this front i would consider the list to be a success, from what i have experienced so far.

I am a massive fan of this rule and will most certainly be doing further testing.  Even if it's not adopted by the ERC i think i'd like to continue testing this list to get the rough edges smoothed out so i can continue using without fear of it being unbalanced against regular opponents.  I would also likely reccomend that this avenue is the one to be explored by Epic UK when developing their own Tau list for use in UK tournaments.

For my education would some one please cite an example of any other epic army with similar limitations and vulnerabilities the Tau player must deal with?
Has there been a serious effort to clearly define doctrine for the Tau. There are multiple examples of various doctrinal forces in the other existing armies. As noted earlier(much,I believe) until this is complete we will drift about like so many butterflies.

I intend to play test in next few days all the noted ML requirements with the small change that the marker light has the range of a rail gun. I know that this is extreme, but if you keep the rules that limit the Tau as no other army is limited, I might as well try to break it the other way. More later, BTW what is the disposition of drones?

Bear