TRC that would not be remotely similar. As upgrades, units granting abilities such as ML to a formation have a cost and often have other disadvantages (e.g. adding LV units) so there are internal balancing factors.  If you want more options/flexibilty/etc you have to balance them against the cost/disadvantages.  Just like many other lists.

It seems awfully similar considering we are talking about stuff like skyrays (another av int he formation), pathfinders (more infantry in the formation) and so on. Or would you make all ML's LV's? That would make a difference, though not that much for mech formations..

Still somewhat list deisgn rather than tactics.

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LV status was just one example of a disadvantage.

A universal one is that the more upgrades you buy the less activations you end up with.  This is a universal balancing factor in all lists with extensive upgrade options.  And as a balancing system it seems to work well for other lists.

That would work - if Tau formations weren't so cheap to start with. 300 points for a mechanised formation is rather good in the activation regard. So are you suggesting re-jigging formations to increase them in size/points at the outset to make it less viable?

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In the current Tau list (5.1) 300 points doesn't seem exessively cheap to me.  Seems in line with other lists; Tactical Marines 300, Rhino mounted BL Retinue 315, Mounted Guardians 350, LatD Coven and Land Transports 260, IG Mech 400.

So its on the lower end of the list, but the more expensive formations clearly have superior troops (or transports in the case of Guardians).

If you mean in reference to E&C's proposed ML rules then perhaps so.

How about we trial them with current values first...?

And it's precicely why the Tau use Sentry Towers/turrets and Remoras aswell (to help reduce the risk to said fragile ML formations).

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clausewitz :

This list proposal is supposed to enhance synergetic behaviours between formations in the Tau army list. If every formation has cheap access to infantry Markerlights then this element falls down entirely.

I want the Markerlight formations (Stelths, Pathfinders, Tetras) to be absolutely integral elements of the army list, which must be risked (if only for a short time) in order to attack the enemy on the Tau's terms.

Remember the Taros Campaign, where for 80% of it the Imperium are merely catching glimpses of Pathfinder and Tetra scouting parties, before Guided Missiles swoop over the horizon and slam into Imperial Tanks?

That right there is small Markerlight formations operating independently in advance of the main army.


If every formation has cheap access to Markerlights then TRC's right, you might as well just institute a Special Rule that says 'all Tau units gain +1 to-hit when they are within 30cm of the enemy'.

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Another update to the proposal, this time:

- Mechanised infantry formation reduced to 6 Fire Warrior units and 3 Devilfishes.
- Gun Drone formation added back in.
- Gun Drone 'expendable' type rule added (basically the rule from the Taros Campaign list, except rounding up partials instead of rounding down).
- Gun Drone upgrade becomes 2 or 4 units.
- 'Bonded Team' Upgrade for Fire Warriors gives one unit in the formation Leader for 25pts.
- Barracuda squadron drops from 175 to 150pts.
- Allowed 3 Support Formations per Core Formations, instead of only 2, to represent the Tau's notable flexibility.



- Supreme Commander ability restricted to Scorpionfish only in the Armoured list.

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First off, just know I'm saying this in a *friendly* way!  

While I think your proposal is good, I also think you should slow down on the "updates" and allow CS and Honda to digest things and respond.  This seems like a fairly stable version, you should let it "sit" for a bit and let people examine and test it.

Just my two cents.

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I was considering adding your idea about formation-dependant points costs for upgrades, but I can let it hang a bit too... it is stable enough to have a knock around with and see if it is fun now I reckon.

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Well, if you're gonna use *my idea*, then go right ahead!  *laugh*

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Why the leader out of interest?
Why not just expendable?
Why the barracuda change? Not only in this list are they getting +1 to hit when stafing marked formations but even without that they have a 360' defence against being attacked, are move manoverable when ground attacking than Orks and Humans aircraft and have a stand off range of 30cm during those attacks. Are you sure that's justified? Perhaps instead a better measure is to make it 225 for 3 if it needs a boost?

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General Plumer, 191x

To help make Fire Warriors attractive, by allowing them to fight on until late in the game.
Why not just expendable?

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If someone would point me at the final version of expendable I'd suggest using that...