Forlorn Hope, surely?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Chosen CSM would vaguely corrispond to standard CSM with the 'scout' Special Rule IIRC (can't remember their actual rules offhand).

Forlorn Hope formations are probably the closest approximation, but there isn't anything particularly special or 'chosen' about them to mark them out as superior to standard CSM.

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Forlorn hopes have Scout

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They're chaos marines who operate as an elite scout formation. I believe they were always intended to fill the "veteran marine" catagory, and probably would have been called "chosen" were it not for the fact that the old 40k book had terminators as chosen.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

oh yeah so they do, lol.

I never use them so forgot ; they could quite easily be renamed 'Chosen Chaos Marines' then.

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IIRC they were introduced in order to patch over the activation problems the list was having during development, by introducing a smaller formation that cost less points (thereby boosting the number of activations in the army).

'Chosen' were renamed to 'Chaos Terminators' before the list was made official, the same could have happened with the Forlorn Hope but did not...

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You should, they are in any list I build. Excellent formation.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

It probably explains why I lose a lot with my CSM's

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Why not rename them Possessed Marines? The background text for Possessed talks about them being especially good scouts and trackers so they would be a good fit. It would also solve the question of how to differentiate Folorn Hope marines from normal Chaos Space Marines - they could be modelled with extra mutations.

I have always thought 'Forlorn Hope' was a bizarre and inappropriate name for a Chaos Space marine formation - are they meant to particularly pessimistic or something? It just doesn't fit the other nomenclature.

The meaning of "Forlorn Hope"; it's an historical reference Jervis stuck in the list as a bit of humour, I believe.

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Vraks Part 2 arrived today. So for completeness i compared the Dreadclaws rules with the Drop Pod from Imperial Armour Apocalypse.
They BOTH have the same "Drop Pod Landing" special rule. So no extra accuracy for Dreadclaws.
The "Drop Pod Landing" special rule is (paraphrasing): After arriving from reserve place the model anywhere on the table. Move it at least 36". In the next turnof the controlling player (Which gives the opponent one turn of shooting against the DropPod/Dreadclaw.) it lands.  Roll a scatter die. On hit it remains where it is else it scatters 1D6 inch.

Unless you don't play Apocalypse then the Imperial Armour 2 Update kicks in and Space Marine Drop Pods suddenly use Deep Strike for deployment (placemodel and immediately it lands). So you can't shoot at them anymore but they can scatter twice the distance (2D6 if you don't roll a hit with the scatter die).
Dreadclaws however are unchanged.
The Dreadclaws deployment rules however remain unchanged because there is no Update for them (perhabs in Vraks 3).

Both Drop Pod and Dreadclaw are "Vehicle, Flyer" in Wh40k (and Apocalypse) but the Drop Pod is Immobile after landing while the Dreadclaw isn't.

The Flyer rule can be found in Wh40k Apocalypse (and are reprinted in Vraks 2). Flyers arrive from reserve and then are placed anywhere on the table (they don't scatter) Each turn Flyers have to move at least 36" in one direction but can turn freely after the move. Instead of moving a Flyer can retraet and enter the table at any subsequent turn again.
Off course Flyers are Thunderhawks, Valkyries, Thunderbolts, etc.

The fluff text in Vraks 2 about Dreadclaws redeployment is:
Unlike more primitive drop craft, the Dreadclaw is capable of taking off again after landing, and although less manoeuvrable in a planet's atmosphere than a purpose-designed aircraft, it can be used to effect re-deployment in the field as well as performing rapid extractions to planetary orbit; a vital advantage given the raiding activities of many Chais warbands.

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The Dreadclaws deployment rules however remain unchanged because there is no Update for them (perhabs in Vraks 3).

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I would expect the Dreadclaw rules not to be updated again for the next five years or so at the least (until the next CSM Codex at the earliest).

There are no new Dreadclaw rules in Imperial Armour VII (I've briefly read it).

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My main Chaos army is Red Corsairs, who actually do use Drop Pods... but I'll pick some up for when I use them as the Black Legion too.

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Actually in the Red Corsairs army list it says Dreadclaws    But i could change it.

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