If points have been raised and can be addressed, and no one wants to keep playtesting the same things that have already been brought up, what would be the benefit of letting the list sit fallow for more than a month?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

They have been given a break... Honda hasn't posted, anything or anywhere on these forums, since May 22, yet his last logon was at the start of July... that's almost two months of no communication from the person who was taking the "lead" on continued development of the Tau; No comments at all in any of the subsequent playtests?  No follow-ups or reports on any of the playtesting he said he was going to do?  Not even, "Sorry, been really busy."?

I'm sorry, but that kind of lack of presence doesn't engender confidence in the lower ranks nor does it inspire people to playtest when if *appears*, and I only say appears, their efforts are ignored.

If you don't have the time to interact as an Army Champion, then you may need to pass the mantle on.  If you *do* have the time to be an Army Champion, even if you're doing it all off-board (which is actually against the ethos of the NetEA Project), then at least let people know that's what you're doing.

The Tau v5.1 has been out for almost four months, surely there's something to comment about in all that time.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Well if you feel that way Chroma surely in your role as an ERC committee member you should be seeking information from your champions?

Okay, let's lay the cards out on the table then, shall we?  As one of the biggest supporters of this group, I could say the same thing about the NetERC.

The NetERC is the de facto head of the Epic Community, yet there are no guidelines for maintaining Army Championship status, no hard & fast rules about attendance, or role call, or posting, or playtesting, or requirement for games played for that matter.  Let's talk about things I know:

I know of an Army Champ that disappeared for four months.  When I brought it up to the NetERC, you did nothing.

I know of An Army Champ who plays perhaps 1 game per year, yet he is in charge of one of the biggest lists in the game.  This is of no concern?

I know of an Army Champ who disappeared for 12 months and has played only ONE Epic game in over 4 years, yet he still holds the position?

And the list goes on...

These strike me as much more important problems than the Tau guys breaking for the Summer, along with establishing some sort of structured organization to the NetERC: goals, guidelines, rules, realistic timetables, priorities, backups, and so on.  These suggestions I have made repetitively and yet they have never been accomplished.  The result is that you have a fast and loose environment where competing lists can crop up, army champs can come and go as they please, and things become chaotic at times.

Mene Mene Tekel Parsin

Now there is something positive to be said about fluid and fast & loose.  It makes it easier on the volunteers (read: everyone involved), allows open development, and takes up less time.  But you (you being the NetERC) don't get to have it both ways.

EDITED FOR SPELLING

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I have been told that the ERC wants to put together a list of responsibilities for Army Champions, and if they fail to meet the criteria therin they can expect to be asked to step up their efforts or step down (or be replaced in absentia).

The NERC has never really defined its role in such a manner, and I support such a move to create a little more structure.


I personally was asked to steward the Mechanicus army list after the previous champion went AWOL in just such a circumstance, and without the ERC taking action in that manner the AMTL list would no doubt still be lying fallow as an unbalanced mess. So there is precedent for the ERC replacing an absent or failing champion

Champions should be expected to participate in debates, play the game itself* on a a less-than-rare basis, and update their lists (if still in development) in a timely basis. If they fail to make the effort to meet those three prime responsiblities they should be warned, and if they continue to fail, be replaced.

* even if only by VASSAL

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

If that is the case, then I take back some of what I posted.  But until I see it, Honda and CS are off the hook IMO.  Heaven knows they deserve a little vacation from the Tau list.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Wow, an angry debate and I'm not involved? I feel unloved

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

*PUNCHES ZOMBOCOM IN THE FACE*

Feel better now?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

If you guys would like me to restart discussion on the next version of this list, then I will do so. My initial reason for not getting over involved (aside from a shrinking enthusiasm) was the plan of letting the list sit for a while (as other lists have also done, I should add).

However, if the general view is that we have waited long enough, then we can restart discussion and see where it takes us - with the proviso that if it appears that it is not going anywhere, we let the list sit for a little longer to get further feedback.

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https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

Personally, I'd like to see posted battle reports of games by either yourself or Honda to see how you're playing the army and the types of forces you field and face.

This type of thing is significant as illustrated by developments in the Necron forums; Corey couldn't understand some of the results people were posting as they didn't make sense within his understanding of the rules, so he didn't respond to these reports, when he eventually posted some stuff, it was discovered that there was a fair variance between the way certain rules were written and what was *intended* to be written.  Without the interaction of the Army Champion, this issue could not be resolved.

Army Champions tend to make assumptions that other people are playing the same way they themselves do, we're all guilty of it.  When someone else views our playing, they can see past those "blinders" and discover issues/misunderstandings that the Champions, perhaps, cannot.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I have to admit that I have not played any Epic in a while, and certainly not Tau forces. I will have to get a few more games in.  

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https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

You're always welcome at GW Wood Green Wednesdays until 10pm, or The Cock Tavern in Euston until whenever, you'd be guaranteed a game at either locale.

Ryan would probably love to pit his Tau against yours!

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

i was a little mad when awhile back i started to discuss topics about the tau and was told it was on hold till AUG. well i know some people dont play much thats ok but some of us due play alot . some of us want progress on our armies. i just lost my train of thought im going to bed .RON IN PA.. dont laugh Bill.!!

I think that this is an excellent observation by Moscovian and wonder why this is not it's own separate thread to start gaining some structure on the role of an Army Champion.

If an Army Champion does not play the list he is responsible for, you have to wonder why (for any purpose other than ego) he/she is holding onto the position.

Is someone on the ERC happy to start establishing a thread to agree on a structure or, dare I say it, position description?

It's not meant to be finger pointing, just an overdue process that should be started IMO.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Speaking as a relative outsider this looks like welcome news.
Not to disparage anyone, as Epic is a hobby at the end of the day and people are giving up their free time to develop/test lists but this gives me new hope that the lists will move forward. I might even consider putting my WIP Space Wolves on the forums now, as tbh I didn't see much point in the past.