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Dreadclaw questions

 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:33 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 20 Jul. 2009, 11:55 )

Quote: (zombocom @ 20 Jul. 2009, 07:01 )

I'm for keeping it simple, droppods with no deathwind and no scatter.

Which actually requires a new (although small) Special Rule, whilst having them as Jump Pack units fits within the current rule system AFAIK.

Your jump pack idea would certainly need a design note that'd probably be longer than the note needed for non-scattering planetfall.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Chroma's idea was Jump Packs, mine was Skimmer.

Why would it need a note?

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Not a note, a design note. It's going to need explanation in the list why the drop-pod can suddenly now fly around the place.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 20 Jul. 2009, 15:49 )

Not a note, a design note. It's going to need explanation in the list why the drop-pod can suddenly now fly around the place.

Wouldn't that likely be explained/described in the flavour text for the unit?

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:53 pm 
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It needs a design note no more than a space marine Scout unit needs a design note.

Space Marine Scout units have the Scout Special Rule because they can Scout.
Dreadclaws would have the Jump Packs Special Rule because they have, essentially, Jump Packs.


The background text that accompanies each unit entry would suffice to explain that after coming down from orbit, Dreadclaws are used to effect the re-positioning of troops during battle as essentially a Rhino with jets on the bottom.


It would only be a 'sudden' change because the Black Legion army list has been ignoring the background all these years ; you don't need a design note to explain the correction of an error.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Given the heated discussion over whether they should have skimmer, jump packs, bomber or none of the above, it's clear that not everyone agrees on how they should be represented, and definately the majority of people were unaware that they could supposedly redeploy.

If I read a list with a drop pop with jump packs without any explanation, I'd be pretty confused. It definately needs a design note to explain the thinking, in much the same way as the design note for giving walker to White Scars bikers.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:35 pm 
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So it would seem the choices are two(three)fold.

Option 1
The easist option.
No deathwind, no scatter.
No fuss, probably no points change.

Option 2
The fluff? option.
AV, armour 5+/6+ (Thick Rear Armour), move 30/35, skimmer/jump packs, transport x, planetfall
Requires testing (particularily in reguards to effect on rhinos)

Option 3
Flyer formation
Requires masses of testing and rules exceptions and special rules.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Option 3
[...]and rules exceptions and special rules.


No. Only a note that a formation of Dreadclaws uses the War Engine transport rules as if it where a single War Engine.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:46 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 20 Jul. 2009, 16:42 )

Option 3
[...]and rules exceptions and special rules.


No. Only a note that a formation of Dreadclaws uses the War Engine transport rules as if it where a single War Engine.

Would that mean the Dreadclaws are their own formation after dropping off their initial load?  Would they be bought separate from Retinues/etc out of the Aircraft allowance?

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Yes.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:04 am 
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Option 2
The fluff? option.
AV, armour 5+/6+ (Thick Rear Armour), move 30/35, skimmer/jump packs, transport x, planetfall
Requires testing (particularily in reguards to effect on rhinos)

If we want something that represents the fluff well as I mentioned, giving it a speed value doesn't represent the fluff at all...

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:12 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 21 Jul. 2009, 01:04 )

If we want something that represents the fluff well as I mentioned, giving it a speed value doesn't represent the fluff at all...

How not?  

It moves around the battlefield in 40k... which is, scaled down, a tiny portion of the EPIC battlefield!  *laugh*

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:34 am 
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Because from the decription E&C has given they are used to ferry troops around the planet. I see them as lunar landers (very topical!  :laugh: ). They land then blast back up into the atmosphere. Hopping around like frogs doesn't really evoke that picture in my mind.


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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:38 am 
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Quote: (Dobbsy @ 21 Jul. 2009, 01:34 )

Because from the decription E&C has given they are used to ferry troops around the planet. I see them as lunar landers (very topical!  :laugh: ). They land then blast back up into the atmosphere. Hopping around like frogs doesn't really evoke that picture in my mind.

The description is of them 're-deploying troops in the field' which is quite open to interpretation.

In Warhammer 40,000, they can re-deploy troops over a great distance rapidly, but obviously having a Jump Pack unit with a literally infinite speed (basically what it has in Warhammer 40,000) is obviously unworkable.

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 Post subject: Dreadclaw questions
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:07 am 
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If the dreadclaw needs to be changed I'd go for as little change as possible.

I'd recommend something like :-
Dropping of Deathwind attack and allowing drop zone re-deployment of 30cm (maybe more) before scattering.
The extra re-deployment range to represent the movement on a 40K table.


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