Sorry?

Yes, but the defender gets to assign the hits where units are are "equally close", e.g., in base contact.

So, if you're in base contact with four enemy units, one with a character, and score three hits, your opponent will (probably) assign those hits to non-character units.

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So just to be clear..

If 2 Banshees were in base to base contact with 2 tactical marines, one with a chaplain and 2 scorpions were in contact with 2 other tactical marines.  And both Banshees hit, it would be legal to allocate both those hits to non-character tactical marines?

Stompzilla, I am also not entirely sold on increasing the save for the reasons you state. However it has always rankled that other units got increased armour to reflect their agility while Banshees did not. But hey, that is what testing is all about  

CC4+FSMW certainly will pack a punch, and may well be OTT with Infiltrate etc because we have to consider maniacs like me using pure Banshee formations

However, I am much less sure about Lance as that is specifically an Anti-armour weapon and steps on the Shining Spears role. As an alternative, could I suggest considering CC3+ and CC2+.

Chroma, I still intend to try these options on Tuesday, opponents permitting of course.

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As the rules stand, yes, since all the Tacticals are in 'base contact', so they are all eligible targets... it doesn't matter which unit is in base with which to determine that eligibility.

One of the reasons for giving the Banshees sniper was to mitigate a bit of that, to allow them to "assassinate" in addition to lowering the enemy's armour value.

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Exactly so. Indeed it allows the opponent to kill both marines in contact with the scorpions thus reducing their combat potential as well. It is one of the peculiarities of the E:A mechanics in this particular respect. And furthermore, because the First Strike round is separated from the normal round, the defender potentially gets to use the same tactic when allocating hits from the Scorpions as well (though it also means that any FF hits will get allocated to anything in B-B first; including the character if it survived the Banshee attack)

Sniper allows you to allocate the hits but is potentially too powerfull, hence the suggestion of Infiltrate to allow just the Banshees to contact only those units that they want to attack - effectively 'sniping' the characters

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The *brutal* thing in this regard is that if the Banshees have killed the units basing the Scorpions during their first strike attacks, the Scorpions can now only make fire fight attacks!

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just added that too  

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Could one of you guys point me to where the "base contact means same distance from the enemy" concept comes from?

Base Contact = 0.0cm from enemy.
Not in Base Contact > 0.0cm from enemy.

Hit allocation is based on nearest enemy to nearest target. In the case of ties, defender chooses.

Morgan Vening

Thanks.  I was hoping for which part of the rulebook to look this stuff up.

For example the "if its a tie defender chooses" where is that?

From the rulebook, emphasis added:

1.9.6 Allocate Hits & Make Saving Throws
You must allocate hits inflicted on your formation against
targets that are within range and line of fire of the enemy. Hits
are allocated ‘from the front to the back’ of a formation.

The owner of the formation is the individual who assigns hits to it.

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Thanks Chroma.

I'll step down and leave the rest of the Banshee discussion to continue.

Ginger:  I'm not talking about combining it nwith infiltrate or anything else.  Just 4+ MWFS.

Lord Inquisitor definately has my reasoning nailed on the head.  While CC 4+MW is quite good, it's no more good than FF 4+ MW and a shooting attack.  IMO this is the simplest change that has the least variables to juggle and will do the trick of making Banshees attractive and giving them a niche.

Of course the proof will be in the pudding and i will post some playtest results when i manage to get some games in over the next couple of weeks.

Likewise I hope to test various combinations next Tuesday.

CC4+MWFS is certainly worth testing, but my concern is that MW makes it a bit too generalist IMHO, where I understood the intent was an anti-infantry specialist role. The other issue is just how to use this version of Banshee. Basically in this form it would seem that they can only run up to the outside of the enemy formation and hack away. Obviously adding Infiltrate allows more specific attacks to be mounted.

Could you explain how you see Banshees being used, and more importantly how many you would use in a formation and why

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