"Fast we moved, fast, not hanging between walls, entrapment is death, fast, trust and discipline..... Never rest, always forwards, hunger for the enemy..." - ANGRON

In my goal to make an alternate World Eater list that is different to a generic Khorne list, one of the ideas I have is to have Angron available to the list.

We have come up with 2 possible examples that I would like assistance with. The general premise is that Angron is comparable to a bloodthirster, with a small retinue.

You sceptical? OK, please read below at the two examples and tell me what you think.

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Option 1:
Bought as an addition (seperate model) to a core formation and is automatically the Supreme Commander

Cost: ?
Frequency: 0-1  
Type: War Engine
Speed: 30cm
Armour: 4+
CC: 3+
FF: -
Weapons: Axe of Khorne - TK(d3) Extra Attacks +2
        Whip (?)      - TK Extra Attacks +1
Notes:DC3, Inspiring, Walker, Wings (count as Jump Packs), Reinforced Armour. Fearless. Commander. Supreme Commander. Angron's Retinue

Critical Hit Effect: Angron is hurled back into the warp. Angron's Retinue and any daemonic units within 5cms will be dragged back into the warp and are destroyed

Angron's Retinue: 2 bases of Bloodletters each modelled 4 troops to a base that remain within unit coherancy of Angron at all time. These are summoned for free and automatically by Angron at any time at the start of a turn

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Option 2:
Angron is a FREE addition (seperate model) to a core formation. He operates just like the Eldar Avatar where he is summoned for free by a unit with Daemonic Focus and stays there until the end of that turn at which point he dissapears.

Cost: FREE
Frequency: 0-1  
Type: War Engine
Speed: 30cm
Armour: 4+
CC: 3+
FF: -
Weapons: Axe of Khorne - TK(d3) Extra Attacks +2
        Whip (?)      - TK Extra Attacks +1
Notes:DC3, Inspiring, Walker, Wings (count as Jump Packs), Reinforced Armour. Fearless. Commander. Angron's Retinue

Critical Hit Effect: Angron is hurled back into the warp. Angron's Retinue and any daemonic units within 5cms will be dragged back into the warp and are destroyed

Angron's Retinue: 2 bases of Bloodletters each modelled 4 troops to a base that remain within unit coherancy of Angron at all time. These are summoned for free and automatically by Angron at any time at the start of a turn

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My version of a World Eater list would have a clear weakness in low supporting fire and navy, so please take that into consideration.

So what are your thoughts?

Suggestions?

Possible costs on Option 1?

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Can someone also fix the heading as it appears in the chaos section. Some cut and pasting that went very wrong...

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But essentially World Eaters ARE a Generic Khorne list, Generic Khorne Space Marine organisation has been based off of the World Eaters since year yonk - all you're really proposing is a Special Character addon.

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That may have been true of the past, however I am trying to seperate the lists.

So, as well as this addition, the differences between the lists as I envision them are as follows:

Khorne List
- A normal Chaos list with a predominance for taking Khorne Berserkers with marine/Imp guard support options.

World Eater List
- Blood Rage (due to cerebral implants)
- Limited support options
- Angron Special Character
- Limited Navy (small fighter/bomber and a battleship)

At the end of the day, it is a fan list that I am trying to move towards the fluff that totally attracted me to this legion from years ago.

I do see your point however.

I would really like some help with Angron however, even if it is just for a home rules based list.

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Couchmonster did some work on the Primarch here:  Chaos Primarchs

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Thanks for that

Downloaded and added these to my research for this project. Looks like there are minor differences but we are all on the same track. Looks like Shermo had some ideas also.

Judging by Couchmonster it is worth 300 points..?

Apart from these that appear to be 'on table' editions, any thoughts on option 2 I presented?

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Angron has had rules presented for use in Warhammer 40,000 within the last year or so IIRC.

He was 'just' a high-power Daemon Prince, certainly not a War Engine sized guy.

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My miniature would say otherwise  




As a Daemon prince, and an old one at that, could he not be virtually any size he wanted comparable to the energies that could sustain him?

That would at least justify the use of the old primarch miniatures...

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I have no interest in playing an Epic that represents what Warhammer 40,000 or Epic itself used to be ten or fifteen years ago.

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E&C.

You have made a similar statement on a few threads, and invariably I support your view. I did make an edit to my post. Do you not conceded that it is possible to have a larger Daemon Prince - afterall, Fulgrim was comparable in size to the Avatar in the Fulgrim Horus Heresy book I believe....

In 40K, the Avatar is as big as a Daemon prince, yet it is DC3 as official in the Epic Rules. So what is your stance in this regard?

I just don't feel you have looked at all these options.

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I don't remember any particular description of size there other than the impression that the Avatar was the larger of the two, and that Avatar would doubtless have been the 'small' Avatar that appears in Warhammer 40,000-sized battles, rather than the 'large' Avatar of Epic, which is how Fulgrim managed to kill it, instead of being drop-kicked by it.



I agree that Daemon Princes can probably vary in size somewhat, but no Daemon Prince has been presented as War Engine sized for many years now, that is seemingly reserved for Greater Daemons only, which are very often presented as being that large.

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I would hate to be the 'young king' who was not good enough to die for an Epic Avatar, and gave his life for a silly 'mini-me' Avatar.....

I never did realize there were different sizes.  

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Clearly there are, as even Warhammer 40,000 has a two different sizes of model, one double the height of the other...


...the real difference is of course that the GW studio signed off on allowing a 'big' Avatar for Epic.

To do the same for Daemon Princes as a fan effort when no Daemon Prince has been depicted as being that large for fifteen years is going into grey territory at best...

...Angron's been given 40k stats recently, and he was 'just' a ridiculously powerful Daemon Prince (infantry sized), not a Warhound Titan-sized monster, and this is in the days of Apocalypse, where GW is quite happy to up-size other Chaos units like the Daemon Engines (which all gained a pip or two of DC in the update).

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Others(like me) OTOH aren't interested in following like lemmings GW's latest cash-milking ideas though. Some don't like scrapping good background just because GW wants to milk more cash by changing everything at whim.

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I don't follow thoughtlessly off of cliffs; I'm also quite concerned as to the attractiveness of Epic to newcomers.

If you don't follow major updates, you end up with a game system like Netepic, which for all its coolness to its current players / players who played in the SM/TL days, does not attract new players who are trying out Epic now.

And a great part of that is due to Netepic's great divergance from Warhammer 40,000 into become its own alternate universe.

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