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AMTL 3.14
Chroma
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:09 pm 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 23 Jun. 2009, 16:05 )

This seems rather complicated to me and wouldn't point defense weapons have already been factored into the FF value?

Well, that becomes something of a "chicken and the egg" issue... if the point defence value of the Carapace Multi-lasers is already factored in to a Titan's FF value, why do they need ground-based shooting values, it's only the AA that needs to be referenced then.

If the point defence value is *not* factored in, then the question raised is: Why not?  Since that's what the weapons are supposed to be used for when not keeping aircraft at bay.

I've seen Carapace Multi-lasers mainly added to low-cost "assault" Titans for a cheap Blast marker-laying ability when all the other weapon slots are filled with FF/CC weapons.




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Vaaish
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm 
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if the point defence value of the Carapace Multi-lasers is already factored in to a Titan's FF value...

This assumes that they are in fact a point defense weapon and not a weapon system in addition to the point defenses of the titan. If they are multi-lasers, why would they be incapable of acting like every other multi-laser in the game? What makes these gain a special FF ability and lose the ability to shoot farther out?

Is it a problem for them to be used to lay BM when not shooting at aircraft?

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redsimon
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:37 pm 
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Quote: (Flogus @ 23 Jun. 2009, 00:41 )

Oh, I remember a background thing : since the Heresy, there are no more "Legion" of titans. Like Space Marines Legions were split into Chapters, Titan Legions were split into Ordos.

So the list should be name War Gryphons Titan Ordo.

No, that is old AT background that was never repeated. The Titan Legions still are called Legions in all publications of GW, and no Legion is ever called ordo or bears the name ordo.
So still Legio Gryphonicus (or War Griffons).

Also with the recent situation with forgeworld. How will this be affecting the list since the future of several of the models is not certain. Even though the list has other units without models, it is worth considering what to do about these as well.

I already thought about that. The best solution would be a Titan construction guide: how to make Titans out of 40k models (Sentinel sprue is a good base, at least for Battle Titans).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:39 pm 
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I already thought about that. The best solution would be a Titan construction guide: how to make Titans out of 40k models (Sentinel sprue is a good base, at least for Battle Titans).


All three main Titans are still available from SG.

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Chroma
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Quote: (Vaaish @ 23 Jun. 2009, 16:16 )

If they are multi-lasers, why would they be incapable of acting like every other multi-laser in the game? What makes these gain a special FF ability and lose the ability to shoot farther out?

Cuz they're way up high?   :laugh:

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redsimon
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:46 pm 
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All three main Titans are still available from SG.


But at what a price! And how long?
Apart from that, there is no Emperor Class Titan available (and none in sight) and you have to convert all Titan options not available yourself.

Btw, your AMTL rules are great but the options are reduced. What if someone wanted to field Titans with the options available at NetEPIC or an AT style Titan game?

--> There is a demand for such a guide.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Btw, your AMTL rules are great but the options are reduced. What if someone wanted to field Titans with the options available at NetEPIC


You use the collector's stats found near the back of the document.

or an AT style Titan game?

You play an AT style Titan game, not Epic.

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Vaaish
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:58 pm 
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Cuz they're way up high?   :laugh:

If they are way high up and can't shoot at something far away, wouldn't that sorta stop them from shooting at anything closer to the titan too, since they are well... way high up? :))

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 23 Jun. 2009, 14:55 )

My argument against the tax remains that VMB + inferno is at least as good as 2xVMB.

"Specific role" doesn't always mean multiples of the same weapon.

I'd debate that.

2x Inferno Guns are excelent at rooting infantry out of cover (6BP, Ignoring Cover)

2x VMB are excelent at shooting up infantry in the open, or at applying multiple hits to small formations like Terminators. This Titan can also stand off outside of the normal 30cm Engagement bubble.

When you mix the two, you get a compromise, in that the resulting Titan is not quite as good at doing either task, although admittedly still very good.

1x Inferno Gun, 1x VMB is a very good loadout no doubt about it, but it's not quite as optimised as a full-on dual fit Warhound.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:17 pm 
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I've found that a Warhound with a TLD and a VMB can be a nasty combination also, especially if it's a pair of Warhounds armed the same way. Also, the effectiveness of a Titan's weapons load can depend on the opponent. My point: I don't see the necessity of the 25 point surcharge for being armed with the same weapons.




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Chroma
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:18 pm 
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Quote: (Dwarf Supreme @ 23 Jun. 2009, 17:17 )

I've found that a Warhound with a TLD and a VMB can be a nasty combination also, especially if it's a pair of Warhounds armed the same way. My point: I don't see the necessity of the 25 point surcharge for being armed with the same weapons.

Personally, I think the "single" Warhound in the list should just cost 300 points as its normal, base, cost.

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zombocom
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Given that the list is probably slightly underpowered, it really can't hurt to drop the surcharge. Is it really such a bad thing to have specialist warhounds?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Experience has shown that if there's no surcharge, we never see mixed-load or 'standard configuration' Warhounds at all, only oodles of dual fit Warhounds.




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wargame_insomniac
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Quote: (redsimon @ 23 Jun. 2009, 16:46 )

All three main Titans are still available from SG.


But at what a price! And how long?
Apart from that, there is no Emperor Class Titan available (and none in sight) and you have to convert all Titan options not available yourself.

Btw, your AMTL rules are great but the options are reduced. What if someone wanted to field Titans with the options available at NetEPIC or an AT style Titan game?

--> There is a demand for such a guide.

If price was sole factor then you would nt collect any GW game.

I agree with E&C- the 3 basis titans are all still available from SG and thus no need to have a conversion guide from W40k scale models. Personally I prefered the look and design of the FW Lucius pattern Reaver and Warhound to the SG Mars pattern. But that is just personal preference.

I think once you start talking Imperator titans and alternative weapon configurations I think you have moved beyond being a staring player and probably know how to acquire second-hand or OOP models.

As for the loss of certain options from AT, I think this and recent AMTL versions have got the balance right between detail and playability. If you want AT level of detail then play AT!!

If you want minimal detail play Epic 40000.

If you want a balance play EA and enjoy!!

Cheers

James

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: AMTL 3.14
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:27 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 23 Jun. 2009, 12:24 )

Experience has shown that if there's no surcharge, we never see mixed-load or 'standard configuration' Warhounds at all, only oodles of dual fit Warhounds.

I guess I'm an oddity. I almost always have mixed weapon loads, surcharge or not.

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