But that is more to do with 7 WEs than the armoured companies

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

From my severely limited experience and gut feeling (gut feeling, gotta be a Nurgle expression?)...

If Obliterators don't have AA they shouldn't have Teleport either. Or an addition to Terminators.
They are "those extremely cool guys", but termies wouldn't really touch them with a 10' pole. IMO.

Stalkers are possibly a good varinat for AA inmstead of Obliterators. Obliterators are on the other hand renowned for making the weapon needed on hand...

Faction deamon engines are still missing in the list, right?
It would feel good if each factioned formation could upgrade with one sort of deamon engine.
A Khorne Retinue could then choose (1-3?) Cannon of Khorne OR Cauldron of Blood OR Tower of Skulls etc as on upgrade.
The Tzeentch flyers would then need to be skimmers.

That would be awesome and seriously cool!
And with only a small number per upgrade and only one per formation it wouldn't throw the list to much. But right now it's just the deamon pool and spikes that make a Black Legion not some flaky(?) Space Marine list. IMNSHO.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Obliterators very definitely have the ability to teleport in the background and Warhammer 40,000.

There's nothing wrong with them being a fearless, ultra-hard Firefight/Fire Support unit. Easily worth their points.

Faction deamon engines are still missing in the list, right?
It would feel good if each factioned formation could upgrade with one sort of deamon engine.
A Khorne Retinue could then choose (1-3?) Cannon of Khorne OR Cauldron of Blood OR Tower of Skulls etc as on upgrade.
The Tzeentch flyers would then need to be skimmers.

That would be awesome and seriously cool!

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'll take your word on the obliterators.  

As it stands now there's so little really showing them to be chaos.

On the other hand I can see the usual liturgies of the quasi-religious Adeptus Astartes being the ones being corrupted. Thus deamons flickingin and out. Not stable war machines.

OR! Would it be possible to add them to the deamon pool?
Yes, I feel they should be present in the basic army list. Strongly feel.
They are such an important part of the Epic chaos battlefield.

Ok, I'll check into Red Corsairs then. But it's not "the official list"...

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

The Daemon Engines to figure strongly in the basic Cultist list... Black Legion already has "daemonic engines" in the Defiler and other War Engines they've got.

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Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I actually agree that all the Daemon Engines should have been in the Black Legion army list*, but I get the impression that there were significant pressures on the list to require as few as possible new/re-released units so they were left to the 'second tier' L&TD army list.

It is however in the past now, and I don't see a big reason to change it when there are other army lists available that do include more Daemon Engines than just the Defiler.


*It matches the background more to give the advanced Daemon Engines to the Chaos Space Marines, and rather than to the poor peasant cultists.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Give me a better name than "bloody slime balls of change" and I'll get on it.  

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

Both the Night Lords or the Word Bearers haven't had lists designed for them to my knowlege.


Night Lords would appear to be pretty much 'typical' undivided Chaos Space Marines, although rarely use daemons (and only undivided daemons then), and apparently hate the Chaos Gods themselves (reminds me of Malal).


The Word Bearers are closer to the Black Legion in modus operandi, but also are known to use lots of Cultists as well.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Close, but not quite.  The original plan was to have all new, undivided daemon engines for Black Legion to follow the background of them creating all sorts of daemon engines for the 13th Black Crusade.

Jervis also wanted to get away from chaos titans.  The reason behind the whole Heresy background was that when it was written GW just couldn't afford a lot of different minis and the civil war concept allowed them to use the same minis on different teams.  He wanted to get away from "mirror image imperials" and replacing the titans was the easiest and most epic-ified way to do it.

So... the Deathwheel and Decimator were born as daemon engine WEs for the Black Legion.  When new mini production was killed, he relented and allowed the titans in and the Daemon Engine feel of the Deathwheel and Decimator withered away, taking that aspect of the list with them.

That same lack of new minis convinced him to allow the older daemon engines as well, though he was pretty reticent about it.  The faction-specific daemon engines were assigned to the L&D because many of the minis had a sort of cobbled-together feel, mostly Khorne and Nurgle.

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Neal

I knew what happened with the Titans, and the specifics of the Daemon Engine development is about what I assumed.


The Pixelgeek Black Legion list is clearly a result of compromises followed by a period of abandonment... it's a good thing the players are stepping up to 'fix' it then!

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Thanks, then I have a good starting point.

And really, it's that cobbled-together feel that is so "cute" about them!  

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

I have made up a Night Lords armylist basedon a very early version of the Red Corsairs. Basically it makes Raptors as a core choice

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We are returned!
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my draw to black legion is everything that is chaos coming together into one gigantic horde under the hand of abby himself.

i am looking forward to making my own plague towers and warp titans and stuff.

I had some ideas concerning Chaos Factions:

First: Remiove the current Faction rules. All CSM formations get 2+ initiative.
Then: Choose a Chaos Faction for every formation. Each Faction gives a +1 modifer to certain Action Tests.
Undivided/Chaos Glory: +1 on Advance (followers of Chaos Glory are eager to please the undivided might of Chaos. They don't have a specialty other then fullfilling their given task as good they can)
Khorne: +1 on Engage (followers of Khorne rally want to get in close and personal with their enemies)
Tzeentch: +1 on Overwatch (followers of Tzeentch are known to see through the fog of possibilities and set up ambushes and traps for their enemies)
Nurgle: +1 on Marshall (followers of Nurgle are known to posess a stoic relentlessness, they shrug off the effects of the battlefield muchmore easily)
Slaanesh: +1 on Sustain (followers of Slaanesh realy enjoy the sounds and visions of battle. And blasting their enemies to parts in loud and sheerful exploisions is justt heir thing)

Thoughts?

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We are returned!
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BlackLegion: That's a brilliant idea! Probably totally unbalanced, but brilliant nonetheless.

I'd probably give Slaanesh +1 on double though, to emphasise the slaaneshy speed, and give Tzeentch +1 on sustain, as Tzeentch just loves ranged shooting.

Of course this would be a significant downgrade to the list...

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Epic: Hive Development Thread