I think that's probably the best combination of price/stat changes I've seen.

Viva La France!

*Checks NetERC changelist*



It's the same for Land Raiders there too.


Really the only thing that's needed to fully fix the Land Raider in the ERC list is to change the upgrade cost to 75pts (85pts is silly).

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I don't know, I think the main difference of Land Raider Phobos (which is a really snobby way of saying 'Vanilla Land Raider') is it's awesome anti-armor capacity and that should be emphasized if you're not content with reducing point costs instead of padding out stuff like firefight values.

IMO, either lowering point cost even more or biting the bullet and changing lascannons to Twin Godhammer Lascannons AT3+ would be more appropriate.

A Firefight boost is quite useful, consider the utility of moving up to shoot (8x AT4+ & 4x AP4+), and then retaining to engage with a second formation with the Land Raiders in support...

At the original stats I wouldn't bet on equal points of Land Raiders defeating equal points of Leman Russ, but with the ERC proposal I think they'd be well matched.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm not saying it's not useful, it obviously is It is a very straightforward and logical upgrade from pure gameplay perspective.

It's just not entirely in style for Land Raiders.

Shockingly, that's the exact same as we suggested to Jervis for the rules review and that NetEA put in the tourney mods...  

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Neal

And what did you cost the upgrades as per Land Raider?

FWIW, @75 points per tank, LR upgrades become very attractive and possibly OTT. If adopted, there is an implication that a similar reduction is needed to the Predator if it is to remain appropriately costed.

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

85 for the upgrades in the suggested army list changes.  We didn't change it in the tourney mods as they were trimmed for ease of use.

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Neal

I use to play many Landraiders (FF4+, 350pts) and they work fine.

But 100pts for a LR upgrade (for Devastator, or Terminators), it's way too much (even with FF4+).

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My gaming and painting blog : http://figsdeflogus.blogspot.fr

Tornados should be 'free' anyway.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yes.

Landraiders 350 for 4, 4+FF, 85 for upgrade is good IMO.

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http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/

I can live with 85pt Land Raiders as long as their FF is 4+, but I'd really rather they were 75pts.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Alright.  I'm pushing for some solid, to-be-playtested-over-a-long-period stats.

From the Black Templars thread, I agree with this quote from E&C:
The roles as I see them are:

Land Raider - Main Battle Tank, with anti-tank bias.
Land Raider Crusader - Transport tank, with Firefight bias.
Land Raider Redeemer - Anti-Personel tank, with a respectable Firefight ability too.
Land Raider Helios* - Main Battle Tank, with enhanced shooting.
Land Raider Prometheus** - Anti-Personel tank, with a Command and Control role in some manner.

*The one that can only carry a single base of infantry, has no heavy bolter, but has a Whirlwind turret on top.
**The one with four twin heavy bolters, and some C&C rules. Hena gave it a Special Rule in his Scions of Iron list to allow the Commander rule to be used with infinite range instead of 5cm.

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Neal