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3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
frogbear
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 07 Jun. 2009, 14:01 )

How could this be made more clear?   :laugh:

Yes

I reposted after that one stating that I made that mistake   :cool:

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alakazam
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:12 pm 
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So your formation are just termagants? You dont mix them with different types of units? Our player has terms, horms, malefactors, haruspex, tyrants, gargoyles etc... all in one formation, mixed and matched across the army. The Terms just FF, its the RA tanks that take the hits in assaults...
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frogbear
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Quote: (alakazam @ 07 Jun. 2009, 14:12 )

So your formation are just termagants? You dont mix them with different types of units? Our player has terms, horms, malefactors, haruspex, tyrants, gargoyles etc... all in one formation, mixed and matched across the army. The Terms just FF, its the RA tanks that take the hits in assaults...

Is this to me?

If so, look at the force organisation. The termagaunts are merely there to bunch together to force the opponent to place the barrage template on them and not the more juicy parts of the swarms. Also they give the FF I need when a full swarm cannot move to within BTB as hormagaunts have no FF.




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alakazam
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:23 pm 
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No, sorry, to Jeridian. I did not click 'page 2' before I posted a reply  :smile:

The buch up for barrage is a nice touch. You evil man you!  :agree:
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Morgan Vening
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 07 Jun. 2009, 08:50 )

Scions of Iron     (8 activations)
1. Whirlwind squad #1 + Hunter
2. Whirlwind Squad #2 + Hunter
3. Warhounds x2
4. Terminators x4 + 2x Landraider (TBA) + chaplain  - BTS
5. Thunderhawk SB
6. Thunderhawk CAS
7. Heavy Tactical w/ 2 Landraiders (TBA)
8. Tactical (TBA)


(TBA - To be advised as I left the army list at Morgan's house)

Just for the records, it was

Scions of Iron     (8 activations)
1. Whirlwind squad #1 (No Hunter)
2. Whirlwind Squad #2 (No Hunter)
3. Warhounds x2
4. Terminators x4 + 2x Landraider (Crusader) + chaplain  - BTS
5. Thunderhawk SB
6. Thunderhawk CAS
7. Heavy Tactical w/ 2 Landraiders (Vanilla)
8. Tactical (2 Pred Annihilator + 2 Pred Destructors + 2 Laserbacks)

As for the game itself, the luck on saves/spawning had little bearing on the game compared to the ineptitude of the Marine player (me!). I was playing the game as if I were playing a normal list, and as a result, after 2 turns, I'd done nothing.

Two things to remember in the future, when attacking swarms, kill one, rather than the traditional tactic of hitting lots. A single BM isn't important on a Tyranids activations, and it just helps them spawn. Secondly, if you know a squad is going to get Engaged, go on Overwatch or move the hell out of the way. An Overwatch on that Terminator Squad at the end could have swung the game my way.

Morgan Vening
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Morgan Vening
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:41 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 07 Jun. 2009, 10:14 )

The warhounds were kept 20cm apart (scout) top prevent the effectiveness of any barrage - hence being able to clip assault them.

How many barrages there was on enemy? Vituperator and Dominatrix, which both hit on 6+ on WEs if they double, which they need to get in range. While I can understand the reason, I think that clipping assault is worse in this case.

They were actually 15cm apart (Warhounds don't have Scout, but do get DC3x5cm.

And the Vituperator was close enough after my activation (35+15) to get the one. I didn't expect a clipping assault, and even with, I figured my 5+RA + 2VS would hold me in good stead.

It didn't, and I broke. Then I rallied. Then I failed to roll a 2+ to remove 2 of 3BM's for the third turn, and so could only fire the single Warhound and blah blah blah, I lost.

Morgan Vening
- Grumpy bastich.

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frogbear
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 07 Jun. 2009, 14:59 )

Eh? BMs doesn't have any effect on spawning, broken does.

No he means that the 1 BM meant that in the end phase the Nid player was able to regroup and thereby get a free respawn attempt. Without the BM, they cannot get a free spawn attempt.

We even came to the conclusion that failing an activation was not a bad thing necessarilly for the Nids as they get a BM and can then regroup then or at the end of the phase.

All the tactical unit did that game was take out the Lictors (150 points).

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Chroma
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ 07 Jun. 2009, 15:06 )

No he means that the 1 BM meant that in the end phase the Nid player was able to regroup and thereby get a free respawn attempt. Without the BM, they cannot get a free spawn attempt.

Technically, Swarms are *always* supposed to be spawning in the End Phase, regardless of Blast marker or not, but it's poorly worded.  The wording will be tightened up in the next revision.




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Jeridian
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:14 pm 
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I think that in most cases assaulting with IG infantry company is a suicide. Mainly as you don't have saves so you better not be expecting much hits.


That was my point, Termagants don't get saves either- so why is it any different for Termagants to assault than Guardsmen? They are identical, bar the Guard have Autocannons, the Nids move 5cm faster. Same FF, CC, save.
Yet charging with Guardsmen isn't the best idea, let alone the primary aim as it is with Termagants.

So your formation are just termagants? You dont mix them with different types of units? Our player has terms, horms, malefactors, haruspex, tyrants, gargoyles etc... all in one formation, mixed and matched across the army. The Terms just FF, its the RA tanks that take the hits in assaults...

So the Termagants never have to take hits, so the 1/2 rule never comes into play- you've just defeated the argument of the 1/2 rule being too powerful. If it has no effect, since your Termagants don't recieve hits, then it can't be powerful, it doesn't have any effect.

I don't have as much varied formation as yourself. I generally have 3-4 unit types in a formation at most, 1-2 at least.
Termies, a few AA gargoyles, Tyrant, Ravener bodyguards.

Mixing loads of formations can be detrimental- some units slow the formation to 15cm move, some units mean AT can be directed effectively at them, etc.

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alakazam
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:20 pm 
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No, when the nids are assaulted, THEN the termagants can get hits (as you usually assault the weakest part of the formation) - even then, the Tyranids are only beaten by a small ammount, usually. The 1/2 rule just means they will not be beaten at all the times you do bring them to assault.
In our experience, of course.

The guardsmen analogy does not work. If the guardsmen were lead by Hive Tyrants backed up with 2xMW Haruspex and 40cm charge hormagaunts, THEN the analogy works... :;):

I must confess, I am jaw-droppingly amazed that other Tyranid armies are not wiping the floor with more people. Either our Tyranid player is awesome or we are playing a different game from the rest of you...

We will try to do a detailed batrep mid-week, if we get time.
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frogbear
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:14 am 
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alakazam

In the near future I am going to try some of the things you have posted with some of the players in my group. I will let you know how I fare...

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mkcontra
 Post subject: 3K Tyranids 9.2.1 vs Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:18 am 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 07 Jun. 2009, 15:09 )

Quote: (frogbear @ 07 Jun. 2009, 15:06 )

No he means that the 1 BM meant that in the end phase the Nid player was able to regroup and thereby get a free respawn attempt. Without the BM, they cannot get a free spawn attempt.

Technically, Swarms are *always* supposed to be spawning in the End Phase, regardless of Blast marker or not, but it's poorly worded.  The wording will be tightened up in the next revision.

So you're saying that EVERY swarm spawns EVERY turn whether they rally, remove BMs or whatever else? :wow:
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