LV status also allows taking wounds for AV's. Has anyone tried taking Raveners to bodyguard Tyrants, it strikes me that Tyrants could be given a serious survivability boost from a few Raveners and I don't really think Tyrants need the help.

Although raveners could be sniped from an AV brood using AP fire I don't really think anybody minds when the harder to spawn AV's are not getting hit.

yup. lotsa raveners to guard tyrants, malefactors and spexes.

Has this trend being coming up a lot in play?

I'm not getting much playtesting feedback (in any aspect!) about this, mostly just theoretical army builds.

Sticking Raveners in AV swarms makes the swarm vulnerable to AP fire, is that not enough of a drawback to give a pause for consideration?

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

In my limited experience, you wanted Inf Warriors in a Gaunt brood.
Being Light Vehicles, you now need LV/AV to protect them. So your forced to pack in Raveners or Carnifex's, etc instead.

So you might as well take Tyrants in their place- more resilient, ignore AP fire, better in combat, etc and benefit just as well from the LV bodyguards. Cheaper too...

yep, Jeridan said it before me, if you have that weakness may as well go the whole hog and get tyrants.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

No.  But it will.  Of course the TW=LV change was justified based on fluff and theory, not playtesting as well -- fair enough... except for the problem that the list as written encourages 'work arounds' that will likely lighten testing of the TW=LV feature.

As to the vulnerability to AP fire -- shouldn't matter because brood creature losses don't generate blast markers.
Though, oddly enough, it will make AV swarms somewhat more vulnerable to assault because Ravener losses do count in assault resolution.

An odd mechanic in general, if you think about it -- infantry support can actually weaken armor against assaults in some situations. But that's not a problem particular to the nid list.

Am I the only one who see the 20cm move of "LV/Inf" swarms as something positive for an army that relies upon assaults? At least enough to go one big swarm of TW:s and Raveners + Gaunts.

@Chroma: I will post my first battle report, an introductory 2400 points' game between Marins (beginner) and Tyranids. I forgot to take pictures, but I kept a log so I thought I should re-stage it and take some pictures. Raveners were good, but not as important as the Harridan and Hierophant who contested vital objectives in turn 3, securing the Tyranid victory.

I did find that I rather chose 1 Ravener over 2 gaunts when it came to spawning though, and fancied 1 Ravener+Gaunt over AV:s, so I guess I liked them. I probably would in any non-Dominatrix synapse formation.

Maybe the Ravener should be toned down a little, 2xCC4+ or FF6+ or Save 6+. Right now, they offer everything, they are a Armoured Hormatermagaunt on steroids. I particularly like the FF6+ idea, since it would keep the Termagaunts useful.

/Fredmans

_________________
Follow my Epic painting projects: Tyranids vs Steel Legion and Inquisition vs Lost and the Damned @
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14636

Am I the only one who see the 20cm move of "LV/Inf" swarms as something positive for an army that relies upon assaults? At least enough to go one big swarm of TW:s and Raveners + Gaunts.

Well, if the "common" sense is to take Tyrants, maybe a price reduction is called for:

3 Tyranid Warriors = 100 = Hive Tyrant

In that way, people's preferences would really show. If people think the Tyrant is a better AND cheaper choice, it is a problem.

/Fredmans

_________________
Follow my Epic painting projects: Tyranids vs Steel Legion and Inquisition vs Lost and the Damned @
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14636

I do not know about this one.

1 Tyrant is easier to kill than 3 Tyranid warriors (that is what you get for +25 points).

When the death of a synapse is one more step to the BTS objective, I am at 2 minds at the moment whether the Tyrant is the preferred choice or not.

I am preparing for my 2nd game with the 9.2.1 rules and am tossing up whether 3 warriors with LV are still better than the one Hive tyrant who can theoretically die with one shot.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Not a bad suggestion.

My question: Will it effect their cost at all, as FF6+ replacement for FF5+ is a huge difference IMO for an army that relies on assaults.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I am not so sure either, it just seemed I was the only one who thought Tyranid Warriors was still useful.

/Fredmans

_________________
Follow my Epic painting projects: Tyranids vs Steel Legion and Inquisition vs Lost and the Damned @
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14636

Oh, I think they're useful too... *laugh*

I usually go with the old "Nexus Group", 2 Warrior and 1 Tyrant, as my standard Synaspe Group.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Myself I'm not worried about AP fire for warriors. If AP fire gets to hit warriors something has gone awry already anyway. It's the AT firepower that worries me. But that's issue with tyrants as well.

But you get 3 warriors for 125 vs 1 tyrant for 100. In my books therefore warriors is the MORE survivable choice. Same AT fire is going to torch them both but tyrant is only one model. Warriors are almost 3 for the same price. Albeit reinforced armour but 4 hits will kill 1 tyrant and 2 warriors. Point for point takes more AT fire to take warriors out then.

Question then is does tyrant have enough other stuff(commander and leader and MW attack) to compensate for more survivability for points and faster speed of warriors(faster if tyrant doesn't want to sacrifice armour to get wings).

Actually I think I might bring out more warriors than tyrants. If I'm vulnerable to AT fire then by gods I'll bring in LOTS of synapse creatures to soak up the fire. Oh and some tough AV's to mix wouldn't go amiss either. Haruspex seems like nice choise. 3 4+ RA AV's for 175 pts should help tyrants and warriors to survive some AT fire.

_________________
www.tneva.net