My normal SM force is roughly a battle company plus most of an assault company, a single first company Termie detachment and a touch of Imperial Navy.  To me, this seems fairly fluffy and even though it has close to 1000 points of deepstrikes, it doesn't feel like it's "all deepstrike, all the time."

Tacs + SC + Razorback (usually BTS)
Tacs + Razorbacks
Devs + Razorbacks
Bikes
Bikes
Speeders
Assault
Assault
Thunderhawk (2 x assault)
Termies
Tbolts

Options include changing Bikes for Speeders, possibly switching out the Dev or vanilla Tac formation, various combos of characters, and adding Hunters or more Tbolts.

I prefer having a single BTS/SC formation.  Normally, it gets stuck in to begin with in order to bring its mass to bear.  Then once it's beaten up and at risk of losing the SC or BTS, it hangs back.

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Neal

What I was getting at with the force disposition information (assuming it hasn't been superceded somewhere) is that regardless of the basis for the Epic lists if the entire UM chapter only has enough actual vehicles to put down 2 Vindicator detachments that would indicate that Vindicator detachments are somewhat rare to be fielded as full squads and not attachments.

Look at how many vehicle detachments the entire UM chapter could field at that time:
5 Land Raider, 6 Predator, 2 Vindicator and 2 Whirlwind detachments. (Then again they can only field 3 Terminator Detachments and that would be unlikely)

My feeling is that a 'fluffy' list has the bulk as mechanised infantry formations with attached vehicles and very limited actual vehicle formations. Going further I think a fighting force will almost always have Thunderhawk support.

Certainly taking no Thunderhawks or Tank based lists come under special circumstances and don't represent a standard force.

The one key point though is the SM list isn't really a chapter list, it's a SM coalition list where you would conceivably get the large numbers of vehicles for full detachments as there are over 4 chapters worth of marines there.

My last tourney list was

Terminators
Terminators
Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk
Tactical + Supreme Commander + Lascannon Razorback + Hunter
Whirlwinds
Devastator
Assault + Chaplain
Scouts + Lascannon Razorback
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts

So one battle company plus vets and new guys! Dev's and Assault flew leaving one T'hawk empty for the eternal air assault where possible. I finished 9th out of 18.

So one battle company plus vets and new guys!

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well, nearly a battle company! I didn't take any warhounds, that's got to count for something!

Here's the Red Scorpions strike force that appears in Vraks II.

Captain in Terminator Armour
Librarian in Terminator Armour
10x Terminators

40x Tactical Marines
15x Devestator Marines
5x Rhino

20x Assault Marines

2x Razorbacks
3x Vindicator
1x Predator
1x Land Raider
3x Dreadnoughts
1x Thunderhawk Gunship
1x Thunderhawk Transporter

1x Strike Cruiser




In Epic, that'd be roughly:


Terminator formation with Captain - 375 (teleporting)
Tactical formation with Dreadnought, 3x Rhino - 350
Devestator Formation with 2x Dreadnought, 1x Land Raider, 2x Razorbacks, Librarian - 450 (BTS)
Thunderhawk Gunship - 200
- Assault formation in Thunderhawk - 175
Strike Cruiser - 200
Vindicator formation - 300
Thunderhawk Transporter - 200 (I think it was only used pre-and-post-battle to ferry vehicles, it doesn't appear in the story of the battle itself)

- Total : 2250pts


I had to turn 10 Tactical Marines into terminators, and the Predator into a Vindicator, in order to make the list fit in Epic.


They have a Reaver Titan in direct support, as well as two Warhounds, which gives a 3400pt army list*.


*Actually slightly more because the Reaver Titan carries a Triple-Barreled Turbolaser on one of its arms, which'd be 25pts more.  




Titans are quite fluffy operating alongside Marines.

There's nothing to say a list can't be 'fluffy' and 'beardy' at the same time.

'fluffy' means 'gels well with the background'.
'beardy' or 'powergamed' means 'optimised to perform to the maximum in games'.

A list can easily fall into both categories.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

So in summary, the views seem to be that a 'Fluffy' Marine list would have:-

1-2 Tacticals from a chapter, with
- Devs and/or assaults (or Bikes/Speeders)
- associated Transport and some vehicle upgrades
- 1-2 Thawks
- 0-1 attached Terminators and Scouts from other companies
- 0-2 AV support formations
- Possibly some Imperial Navy and Titan Legion support

- - - - - And this looks like the vast majority of Marine lists that I have seen in tournaments - so are we actually saying that the majority of lists are actually 'Fluffy'?

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Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

so are we actually saying that the majority of lists are actually 'Fluffy'?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I think the largest barrier to fluffy lists in Epic is the Rhino.  Marines are portrayed as having a core of mech infantry, but Rhinos just suck.  They usually last just long enough to give 1-2 turns of maneuver and after that the Marines are on foot.

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Neal

I actually fielded 2 battle companies at Games Day. It was a very tight fit and had no AA or anti-WE units, so certain armies could have thwomped me.

250 Bike w/ Chaplain
250 Bike w/ Chaplain
350 Devastator w/ Supreme Commander and Rhinos
250 Devastator w/ Drop Pods
200 Land Speeder
200 Land Speeder
200 Strike Cruiser
400 Tactical w/ Commander, Dreadnought and Drop Pods
300 Tactical with Drop Pods
300 Tactical with Rhinos
300 Tactical with Rhinos

I'm trying for something closer to this for NEAT, but I don't know if I'll have it all painted by then:

250 Bike w/ Chaplain
350 Devastator w/ Supreme Commander and Drop Pods
200 Land Speeder
150 Scout
200 Strike Cruiser
300 Tactical with Drop Pods
300 Tactical with Drop Pods
400 Terminator w/ Captain
150 Thunderbolts
150 Thunderbolts
150 Thunderbolts
375 Whirlwind with Hunter

I tend to build my lists with fluff in mind. I imagined this one as a recently replenished Battle Company with 1st, 10th and armory attachments, along with a squadron of Navy fighters operating in support. If I had more time I might swap out the Speeders and Bikes for an Assault with T-hawk and be able to take a Dread as well, but I'll be lucky if I get the T-bolts painted at this point.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Hence all the fun and games with the sallies.

Hay maybe that's a role for thunderhawk transports, airdropping in replacement rhinos through the battle

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Or indeed the two Landing Craft to manoeuver battle damaged formations around the table, armour and all)

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Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt

I'd mostly agree, except to say it should be 2+ Tacticals if you wanted to be fluffy - the do make up 50%ish of a Chapters' fighting numbers. Also while there is nothing unfluffy in a Space Marine army, or a lot of Space Marine armies having Titans and Navy support it would be unfluffy if these were always present. Hence in my meta-game I plan field an army without one or both occasionally, though I'm not convinced it'll do that well.

Oddball idea but perhaps if Rhinos are that poor they could get invulnerable save to account for how rugged and repairable they are? (from the background and occasional small rules mechanic to the effect).

I think by now every rhino idea under the sun has been mentioned. My favourite was allowing you to get turn two dead rhinos into one live one when you rally, reminded me of the Space marine days

The inv idea has been around, normally in the form of 6+ save and invulnerable save as 5+/6+ gives a 2/3x5/6=10/18 45.5% chance of saving, almost as good as a Predator (indeed better considering the amount of MW around these days). Course the 6/6 save is 30.5% chance of saving vs 5+ as 33.3%, so worse against regular fire!

Hell maybe they should have always been as tough as tanks and to hell with the 40k idea of troops tougher than their transports

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x