but note nothing has said that these creatures actually 'die.'  If you think of them as simply wandering in confusion -- and creating confusion for the enemy -- (or licking their wounds) it seems less weird.

It's not my main concern at all, it's just an illustration of the sort of thing that can happen.

A more reasonable example is that the same thing could happen with a bunch of carnifexes with much less risk of it going wrong; they could kill themselves then "teleport" to somewhere useful.

As I said, this is precisely why the necron list has a limitation on only going back to their original formations.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Sorry, but to me, it just seems like you're digging to find a problem.  Have you ever actually seen this done in play?  Certainly it's the kind of thing that "can happen", but *does* it happen?

"Someplace useful" for a Carnifex is "within 30cm" of the enemy, for the most part, so that most likely means you can get back *one*... if you're lucky!  Roll "2"s for a bunch of swarms, and those Carnifex are gone now.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I don't disagree this is gamey, but I've never seen anyone claim that they used the "kill myself and spawn" tactic in a game with any success - not even when the spawn points were higher and costs lower.

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Neal

What's wrong with digging to find a problem? Without looking at the extremes we'd still have the drop-podding scouts of doom, the 5 aces Tau list, and daft C'tan criticals.

No, I've not seen these specific situations, but I have seen formations conveniently always spawning the most useful unit when they get into a useful place. I've certainly seen carnifexes shot down on one side of the battlefield then pop up on the other side ready to engage. The mechanic is by its very nature gamey.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Actually, those were problems that came up in play and were addressed through, dare I say it, battle reports; not just through "Theoryhammering".

With the current spawning rules, it's next to *impossible* to return "bunches" of Carnifex ready to engage.  And, yes, it's "gamey", but it is a game rule attempting to model an extremely complex and messy "real life" aspect for simple play.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Frankly I just don't see the point of spawning at all. Why can't nids just be a bit cheaper and have more of them? The idea of DC3 war engines suddenly appearing out of nowhere leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

And it's such a rarity you'll probably never taste it!  

And it's not "out of nowhere", it's been growing in the ground or *inside* the Dominatix all game!  

Frankly I just don't see the point of spawning at all. Why can't nids just be a bit cheaper and have more of them?

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

i was very much in favour of the direction the French went in. There was much interest and discussion of their version of the list for a while, but nothing much really found its way into our list.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Actually, I posted a proposal for such a list, but the concept didn't seem to "catch" with people.

The v10 series was intended to be "Ork-like" in structure.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

It seemed pretty liked by the comments in that thread (including my own I notice). I really feel the list has become totally clogged up in unneeded special rules (Jervis said something similar when the list was shown to him), and a fresh start from a simpler basis would do the list a world of good.

But then I understand why this won't happen; people are too comfortable with what they have now and unwilling to accept a radical change. But seriously, take a look at the list with a critical eye and think "do we really need this special rule?"

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

1. I played against Nids several times, an in my oppinion the list is a bit too weak, at least against my eldar. They are slow, i can choose where to assault them and my falcons can shoot more AV/LV then they ever can spawn back.

2. Spwaning is very cool! I don´t know if you need it, but at least i think that is waht makes the list unique an not "Orks with less shooting and mixed up formations"...
Plz keep the special rules as they are... i would also like to see some sort of little improvment done to the list in terms of strenght... but that could be just me....

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www.ttc-cosmophobia.de

I just made my first Nid list up.

I am finding that there are not as many minis as I would like and that a good player will quickly demolish the sections of the army to have the game finished by Turn 2. I have not even counted on the spawning as part of the battle plan - I am hoping it will be a bonus.

I just have the perception from making the list alone that the above statement is correct. Only gaming will prove this to be right or wrong.

By the way: Eldar vs Nids is not the fairest comparison when making an overall comment on the nids I would think  

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